Tesla/Testatica/Hans Coler/Wilbert Smith/Hendershot's - energy sink?

[argona369]

Hey Steve,

Wave structure of matter?

I believe your correct!

I wrote a post here about it , and it shows that the macro mechanical version
Of the wave structure of matter
Fit’s the quantum picture perfectly !

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5662.msg265093#msg265093

In that post
…………………..
“Faraday waves.
Though 2d this can easily be converted to 3d (spherical),,

"Couder’s group reports its most startling discovery. If the vibrating fluid bath is also rotating, a walking droplet will lock into an orbit determined by the troughs of its wave. The notion that a subatomic particle has only a few allowed orbital states is called “quantization,” the very phenomenon that gives quantum mechanics its name."
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-fluid-dynamics-insights-quantum-mechanics.html


On this youtube you can see a stable hole, which took energy to create,
Think of quantum foam for the cornstarch. A wave set , stationary in the Dirac sea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkjP5d6ulc
……………..

Think of the Dirac sea (or really better described , quantum foam/virtual particles/ vacuum fluctuations ) as hammers
Hammering away randomly, if energy disturbs this , it loops back (wave front theory)
Forming “matter pockets” or particles
The quantum foam or structure of space is like a super-fluid.
How much energy is in the universe? Maybe just a tiny spark got it all going.
Getting the super-fluid dancing, as everything is relative.


Cliff,

[Steven Dufresne]

Hey Steve,

Wave structure of matter?

I believe your correct!

I wrote a post here about it , and it shows that the macro mechanical version Of the wave structure of matter
Fit’s the quantum picture perfectly !

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5662.msg265093#msg265093

In that post
…………………..
“Faraday waves.
Though 2d this can easily be converted to 3d (spherical),,

"Couder’s group reports its most startling discovery. If the vibrating fluid bath is also rotating, a walking droplet will lock into an orbit determined by the troughs of its wave. The notion that a subatomic particle has only a few allowed orbital states is called “quantization,” the very phenomenon that gives quantum mechanics
its name."
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-fluid-dynamics-insights-quantum-mechanics.html

Using the specific Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) that I follow, everything described in the above paper doesn't apply. The paper is describing the wave-particle duality where the particles are discrete particles that sometimes behave as waves. There are no such things in WSM. Particles are wave structures only - there is nothing discrete.

For example, the paper talks about demonstrating quantum tunneling by having the droplets sometimes hop over the wall. That's just parlor tricks even from their point of view. What if the wall is built a little higher? In WSM, since there are no discrete particles but they are just wave structures on the medium of space, the particle is on one side of the wall, then the wave dynamics cause the wave energy of the particle to move through the wall to the other side and reform as a particle again. The wall itself is just made up of wave structure particles too, so it's all just waves interacting.

The above quote about the rotating fluid and the walking droplet is mimicking the Bohr model of the atom, which has long since been shown to not represent reality and is only used now as a simplified metaphor. So his droplets are describing the way even conventional physics knows things to not be.

On this youtube you can see a stable hole, which took energy to create,
Think of quantum foam for the cornstarch. A wave set , stationary in the Dirac sea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkjP5d6ulc

I like this one better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY6z2hLgYuY&feature=channel_page
It's not analagous to an electron orbiting but rather to what goes in in a WSM particle. In the video he talks about the material moving inward underneath and going back outward on top. In WSM in-waves arrive at the wave center and out-waves move back out. Also, in WSM sperical rotation goes on at the center. The same thing happens in this video.

Think of the Dirac sea (or really better described , quantum foam/virtual particles/ vacuum fluctuations ) as hammers
Hammering away randomly, if energy disturbs this , it loops back (wave front theory)
Forming “matter pockets” or particles
The quantum foam or structure of space is like a super-fluid.
How much energy is in the universe? Maybe just a tiny spark got it all going.
Getting the super-fluid dancing, as everything is relative.


Cliff,

Very interesting, re the tiny spark. There are two ways of looking at it. The normal way is to say it can't have been a tiny spark. The spark could be tiny but all the energy that exists now would have had to be in that spark, since energy cannot be created.

The initial blow into the cornstarch only causes the hole to come into being. The energy that makes the hole continue to exist comes from the waves from whatever is creating the frequency, usually a loud speaker. So where did that energy come from in this case?

The interesting twist is to say that the energy was always there. Before the big bang, the energy was random and there were no particles. Then the tiny, low energy spark occurred in one place. That caused a non-randomness that is sustained by the pre-existing random vibration. This one non-random particle then caused more to come into existance and so on. So the energy was already there. Perhaps all the particles will once again disipate into random energy again one day and eventually an non-randomness will occur again and create a new universe of particles.

Thinking in WSM terms, in the begining tiny sparks, isolated areas of non-randomness, would have been happening all the time but in WSM it takes multiple particles in resonance with each other for any of those particles to continue to exist. So a single tiny spark wouldn't have done it, but rather a coincidental multitude of tiny sparks relatively close to each other. In WSM the initial random energy would be waves travelling through space in all directions but with no particles. That's where it breaks down though unless the universe turns in on itself, i.e. there's no edge otherwise the waves would eventually just spread far apart leaving no energy.

Come to think of it, I've thought about this all before except for the mandatory pre-existing energy. Thanks.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org  http://wsminfo.org

[argona369]

Hi Steve,
sorry for the late reply, always too busy :-)

>there is nothing discrete.


Ok, I’ll look closer at your page I might have misunderstood your WSM.

>The paper is describing the wave-particle duality where the particles are >discrete particles that sometimes behave as waves


The physorg and you tube links were describing the same thing. The holes on the cornstarch
Are the analog of particles made up of nothing but waves.
The paper and you tube only show a *mechanical analog *of macro-quantum vacuum fluctuations
In 2 dimensions only, you have to see or convert that analog to 3 dimensions.
The (mechanical) demonstration  of tunnelling is just that, the *mechanical analog
Representation* of the wave nature of matter and energy level so yes you have to look at it in the very abstract.


>The above quote about the rotating fluid and the walking droplet is >mimicking the Bohr model of the atom


Yes your very accurate in this, but electrons do have discrete orbits with
Probable position or discrete position with probable orbits.
It shows that matter creates its own interference .

http://astro.unl.edu/naap/hydrogen/levels.html

http://ntpl.me.cmu.edu/ntplwiki/index.php/Electrons

http://physics.weber.edu/carroll/wonder/electron_waves.htm


>The energy that makes the hole continue to exist comes from the waves >from whatever is creating the frequency, usually a loud speaker. So where >did that energy come from in this case?

That is quantum foam/virtual particles/ vacuum fluctuations
A “superfluid” that was set into motion at the “beginning?”
The hole is not consuming energy space is “frictionless”
And balanced . Analogy, rubber band/ pendulum/ superfluid.

space fluctuations are the root cause of matter

>Come to think of it, I've thought about this all before except for the
>mandatory pre-existing energy. Thanks.


Your welcome, keep the gears turning :-)

Cliff,

[Steven Dufresne]

Hi Cliff,

Hi Steve,
sorry for the late reply, always too busy :-)

Tell me about it. Groan :-)

>there is nothing discrete.

Ok, I’ll look closer at your page I might have misunderstood your WSM.

Basically, in WSM, since a particle is a wave structure on the medium called space, there is no hard boundary where we can say one particles ends and the next begins. In fact, many WSM researchers don't like the term particle at all and prefer to say wave center or spherical resonance.

>The paper is describing the wave-particle duality where the particles are >discrete particles that sometimes behave as waves

The physorg and you tube links were describing the same thing. The holes on the cornstarch
Are the analog of particles made up of nothing but waves.
The paper and you tube only show a *mechanical analog *of macro-quantum vacuum fluctuations
In 2 dimensions only, you have to see or convert that analog to 3 dimensions.
The (mechanical) demonstration  of tunnelling is just that, the *mechanical analog
Representation* of the wave nature of matter and energy level so yes you have to look at it in the very abstract.

The paper's tunnelling demonstration is a very poor one. You may as well demonstrate by trying to bounce a ping pong ball over a wall. Hit it hard enough and it'll go over. Worthy of physics 101 classroom demonstration notes, nothing else.

This page describes it better in 2D.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling
The difference here between standard Quantum Mechanics and WSM is that Quantum Mechanics uses probabilities since they have no model for what is really going on whereas WSM does. QM is changing, but slowly.

>The above quote about the rotating fluid and the walking droplet is >mimicking the Bohr model of the atom

Yes your very accurate in this, but electrons do have discrete orbits with
Probable position or discrete position with probable orbits.
It shows that matter creates its own interference .

http://astro.unl.edu/naap/hydrogen/levels.html

http://ntpl.me.cmu.edu/ntplwiki/index.php/Electrons

http://physics.weber.edu/carroll/wonder/electron_waves.htm

Read between the lines. They're using probabilities because they don't have an idea of what's really happening. They are not saying the probabilities are telling you the probable locations of the hard ball bearing that is the electron. That would be discrete. In their thinking, it really is more like the cloud. In fact, I've been told that many physicists think particles are waves - the evidence has become overwhelming. Quantum tunneling is one example. It's only the rest of us who haven't taken the PhD courses that think otherwise. We've gotten only to the beginners courses and are shown the simplified models in layman's books. That's the argument that Bohr won against Einstein by bullying. Bohr said we can use probabilities instead of trying to discover an underlying reality because there is no underlying reality. Einstein said that's nonsense. I'm with Einstein. There is an underlying reality and we should be seeking that. The good thing is that as we get into nanotechnology and smaller processors, the physics keeps having to change to accomdate an underlying reality. Slowly but surely. Once we discard the wave particle duality in favour of just waves, and switch from probability wave equations to wave equations, then we'll get somewhere - or just go with WSM now.

Oops. Was that a rant?

Honestly, I don't think WSM is the end-all and be-all. I just think it has a lot of potential for a lot of novel results - like using the energy in those space waves to move electrons down a wire. And since it describes an underlying reality, I don't have to settle for probabilities.

>The energy that makes the hole continue to exist comes from the waves >from whatever is creating the frequency, usually a loud speaker. So where >did that energy come from in this case?

That is quantum foam/virtual particles/ vacuum fluctuations
A “superfluid” that was set into motion at the “beginning?”
The hole is not consuming energy space is “frictionless”
And balanced . Analogy, rubber band/ pendulum/ superfluid.

space fluctuations are the root cause of matter

Yup. Or in WSM terms waves in the medium of space are the root cause of everything.

A good starter article on WSM is:
http://wsminfo.org/articles/GREIT6Oct06.htm
Some day I'll put together a better one that doesn't have all the history and quote stuff to wade through at the beginning. Why do people do that, anyway? Just give me the physics.

Then again, there are also the books.
http://wsminfo.org/links.htm

Cheers,
Steve
http://rimstar.org  http://wsminfo.org