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Is there proof gravity can not be a energy source?

Started by brian334, February 07, 2011, 01:25:10 PM

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Low-Q

Quote from: brian334 on February 09, 2011, 06:22:39 PM
When the sun sends energy to earth it causes water to evaporate and rise,
The air goes up, the air expands, the water vapor condenses. Next the earths energy/gravity pulls the water down.
The suns energy/light makes the water go up, and the earths energy/gravity makes the water come down.
Case closed gravity is a form of energy.
Humans are never going to understand gravity at the basic level, the best we will ever be able to do is describe its effects.
Gravity are for any given object, just a force. The energy lies in the sun which heats up the water into steam. Steam rises and condense. The water droplets are now no longer a light gas, but a liquid. This liquid droplets are too heavy for the air to keep up there, so it falls down to the ground.
The energy here are 100% applied and released by the sun.

Further, we do not have to learn what gravity are "made of" if we already know what it does to objects we use to make gravity motors. We know by numberless of experiments that gravity are conservative - a constant force which cannot contribute to any gravity motor.

What we know is that gravity can slow down time. So there must be a relationship between time and gravity. Time are determined by the speed of light. If light can change direction, slow down, in the presence of a gravity field, there must be a relationship between light, time and gravity.

We know that the greater the gravity is, the more time slows down (Even the clocks in satelites which controlls our GPS systems are compensating for the difference in how fast time are going on earth versus time in space due to the difference in gravity. If not, our GPS would show 12 meters out of course every hour).
So what we might say, is that gravity, as a consequence of time going slower, or vica versa, gravity are a form of potential energy that is stored in mass. Gravity are probably time which is stored as mass. However, releasing 1g mass into pure energy, would be enough to power 1500 average housholds for one year. This means that there is a tremendous amounts of energy stored in mass. It takes the whole earth's mass to provide a relatively weak force as gravity on earth are.

Anyway. It is not important to know what gravity are "made of" as long we know what it does to objects. Describing gravity are just as useful as trying to save a drowning person by describing the water - what good does it do?

What I mean is, describing gravity will not change its nature - nor make gravity motors work. Because we base our experiments on gravity, with normal natural objects which is in presence of a gravity field.




brian334

When the sun sends energy to earth it causes water to evaporate and rise,
The air goes up, the air expands, the water vapor condenses. Next the earths energy/gravity pulls the water down.
The suns energy/light makes the water go up, and the earths energy/gravity makes the water come down.
Gravity provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Sun light provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Gravity does the same amount of work and provides the same amount of energy as sun light.

Energy from gravity = energy from sunlight

Omnibus

Quote from: brian334 on February 10, 2011, 05:13:54 PM
When the sun sends energy to earth it causes water to evaporate and rise,
The air goes up, the air expands, the water vapor condenses. Next the earths energy/gravity pulls the water down.
The suns energy/light makes the water go up, and the earths energy/gravity makes the water come down.
Gravity provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Sun light provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Gravity does the same amount of work and provides the same amount of energy as sun light.

Energy from gravity = energy from sunlight

Oh, c'mon, please.

exnihiloest

Quote from: brian334 on February 10, 2011, 05:13:54 PM
When the sun sends energy to earth it causes water to evaporate and rise,
The air goes up, the air expands, the water vapor condenses. Next the earths energy/gravity pulls the water down.
The suns energy/light makes the water go up, and the earths energy/gravity makes the water come down.
Gravity provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Sun light provides half the energy and does half the work in the cycle.

Gravity does the same amount of work and provides the same amount of energy as sun light.

Energy from gravity = energy from sunlight

The Sun provides the total work.
You forget that the work of gravity applies one time against the water raise, and another time when the water falls.
It is a classical problem. We have to provide an energy W=P*H to raise a weight P of water at an height H (sun energy) because the gravity exerts a work W=-P*H. And when the water falls under the action of gravity, we recover W=P*H. Thus the gravity provided -P*H + P*H = 0, and the usefull energy W=P*H is just the input from the sun.


exnihiloest

Quote from: Low-Q on February 10, 2011, 05:09:14 PM
Gravity are for any given object, just a force.
...

Gravity is an acceleration, not a force. Its energy is stored in the gravity field around the masses, not in the mass: if the mass of a star disappeared, a body placed in its field at a distance d, would be always submitted to the star gravity during a time t=d/c after the event, due to the speed limit c which delays the field collapse at distant locations. Same thing as still receiving light from a far dead star. If the body was at 10 lightyears from the exploded star, it would feel the same gravity during 10 years after the star have disappeared. Bodies can fall in such a gravity field from phantom stars.
This means that gravity can exist without a mass, in the same manner that EM waves still exist without the electric charges that produced them in the past. Therefore energy that can be extracted from a body falling in a gravity field, is really coming from the field; it is a consequence of locality principle.