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Overunity Machines Forum



Shorting coil gives back more power

Started by romerouk, February 18, 2011, 09:51:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

hartiberlin

Quote from: Magluvin on February 21, 2011, 08:32:18 AM
Wow   wouldnt that be a lot of constant current on the MOT?


No, not, if you toggle the switch with 30 to 50 Hz switching rate.

Surely you could also additionally use a double pole switch to
switch off the 12 Volt battery from the coil while shorting out the
coil, but this makes it much more complicated.

By using it how I have drawn it, you will also get 12 Volts higher
output voltages then at the output cap as the spike voltage
adds up to the battery voltage.

Regards, Stefan.
Stefan Hartmann, Moderator of the overunity.com forum

hartiberlin

Quote from: teslaalset on February 21, 2011, 09:07:00 AM
The example of Stefan seems confusing to me.

In this example the coil is powered by an external voltage source. Imagine the voltage source is AC.
If a sinus shaped voltage over the coil is used, the current through the coil is 90 degrees lagging.
If a coil is shorterned at the peak of the voltage, therefore there is no current flow at in the coil yet.
Using Ecoil= 0.5LI^2, this means no energy is stored in the coil at the moment the coil is shortened.

I think it is only the case when flux is generated by a magnet.
So, shortening coils at maximum voltage should apply to generator situations, not motor situations?

Basics:
Flux is proportional to current in the coil
EMF is proportional to the delta flux in the coil and therefore proportional to delta current
If a coil is to be shortened at max EMF, the delta current is max.
Delta current is max when it crosses zero amps
With zero amps there is no energy left in an 'air coil'.
So, if there is an effect, this should be related to magnetic viscosity of core material.
Using air coils does not make sense to me.
Any other opinions?

If you have again another look at Reply #37 where BruceTPU
posted the diagramm from Konehead
you can see, that there is this AC cap in parallel to the coil,
when the switch shorts it out.
Thus there is always no 90 degrees shift anymore of voltage versus
coil current, so there is always a coil current at the max coil voltage level.

You need current inside the coil, when you short it out,
otherwise you will not generate any spike voltage !

ALso it does not matter, if you just switch this switch on only at the
max coil voltage level.
You can just chop the current of this coil all the time on and off,
so you need no complicated sync circuit.

Just a "doorbell ringer circuit" with a 9 Volt battery and a relay with
a few more unused pins at the relay are enough for it to get a on/off switching  with about
20 to 50 Hz is enough for it.

Regards, Stefan.
Stefan Hartmann, Moderator of the overunity.com forum

McGiver30

I attached a basic drawing I made and wondered if anyone can tell me if I got it or I am way off.
Thanks

hartiberlin

Yes, you can do it also this way, but you can also put a 1 to 10 uF foil
cap( 1000 Volts rating, no electrolyte cap) in series with
the Reed switch.

This will then reduce the drag on the magnet.

Regards, Stefan.
Stefan Hartmann, Moderator of the overunity.com forum

McGiver30

I understood that.. i just wanted to make sure i had it right in my head. It is actually for my own project I am building that i wanted the info for. Thanks for the information.