The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8

[friendenergy]

Sorry guys, should have put all this in one post..I'm just throwing ideas out while we wait for the big dogs to tweak the original. So, this is just for those that were thinking of using ferrites or better cores and iron or steel wire...it seems we need to have a large difference in permability for this effect to take..so if we can use the 10000 U ferrite core and nickel wire that has from 100 U to 600 U that might be enough difference. Iron and Steel wire can have up to 3000 U perm so I thought maybe Nickel would be good. Ok, I'm done brain storming with bifilar nickel wire with cancelling DC field applied to control AC coupling from the primary to the secondary...lol@me.

[Aphasiac]

I also have a question...

If I remember correctly, high permeability is of such importance that Mav ordered a custom outer shell to ensure tight fit, but then had troubles fitting/winding the secondary inside of the 'fitted' primary shell.

What about using the loose fitted exhaust donut as he did in his original build, then weld shut the outer shell except leaving a small gap to to fill the core with non-conductive magnetic coil powder (like this here:  http://cgi.ebay.ca/MAGNETITE-500g-Magnetic-non-conductive-COIL-CORE-POWDER-/260773524077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cb750326d ), and then seal it up.

Wiki says the powder can increase permeability by >1000x.  (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core )


Thoughts?


Aphasiac.

[forest]

If I had ferrite powder I would make core such way :
fill PVC tube with powder or ferro-fluid and insulate ends. The secondary , shield then make toroid from it and end by winding primary.

[wayne49s]

I have another question, how does saturation effect this process? Or how do you think it does. I see alot about Permeability but not about saturation. I was looking up

Permeability of Iron, http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/mu/#class

about mid way down.

And steel, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

I can see kind of how it works but then I see this about Saturation of Iron compared to Ferrite, Iron being 1.6 T and Ferrite being 200mt to 500 mT.

http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/mu/#sat

Can anyone clear this up as how it would apply to the Gabriel Device?

There was some comments before. The belief is that some flux has to get through the outer core to the secondary for voltage to be induced. This is facilitated when the outer core is partly saturated... that's why the number of turns on the primary is important as it affects the inductance (idle current) and saturation level of the outer core. This area requires experimentation to verify the behavior and tune the device is the present understanding. That's the stage Mav is at.
/Wayne

[friendenergy]

thanks wayne, so outer shell needs to be saturated so coupling to secondary can take place. Low permeability and low saturation for outer shell, high permeability for inner core,....high saturation or low saturation for core? I know ferrite is only 200 to 500 mT compared to iron of 1.6 T...hmmmm would you happen to know the saturation for the M-417.. thanks. Hope I have that right, if not let me know please.