The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8

[JouleSeeker]

Im not sure what your last post meant by 108 and 108.

108 watts from the wall, 108 watts from the secondary with a PF from the wall being .94 is what that means
5 watt gain.

But again how much of that 108 watts is real or imaginary from the wall, 6 watts are real the rest is imaginary.

Are you still using the amplifier for input?

nope I was using a couple of toasters in parallel that only drew .9 amps total I couldn't get it to draw more if I tried, If I put my voltage probes in the surge suppressor it read 6 volts the Va on the kilowatt meter read 116.

My total input from the wall was 122 volts .9 amps so resistance wise I was using 6 watts and 116 volts returned to the source.



We are all anticipating progress. It will take time. It will take time to get rid of the toaster. It will take time to make determinations of the hows and whys.
Im glad the critics are rare here. Its refreshing. ;]

Can't debunk something that works Everything I have read about reactive power says it gets reflected back to the source so yay for us

Mav

Mav and all -- I'm very hopeful for this Gabriel device.  It seems simpler in many ways compared to the other front-runner (IMO), which is the Muller/RomeroUK device.
The Gabriel has no moving parts, which is great.

Now - the question of MEASUREMENT arises again.  So important.  I realize folks are using a "kill-o-watt" meter, and that makes some sense.  But there are other means that may be more reliable.

Here I'm offering another method, using the Power function of a Tektronix 3032B which I have been using for some months (on solid state devices that may show OU).  I'm used to measuring voltage from the input and voltage-drop across a KNOWN RESISTOR (which I call a "current-sensing resistor" = CSR).

The Tektronix DPO displays the instantaneous math product of these,  providing the POWER WAVEFORM.  Then it calculates for me (built-in function when one knows how to use it) the MEAN POWER.  So we have finally a single number calculated as the INPUT POWER -- but we also have the Power Waveform so we can SEE what is going on.
Pinput = MEAN [ Vin(t) * Iin(t) ]

We do the same thing for the output power --
Pout = MEAN [ Vout(t) * Iout(t) ],
letting the Tektronix 3032 do the work. 

Finally, the efficiency n = Pout/ Pin, which is >1 for an OU device. 

I trust this approach more than taking RMS measurements -- note that trying to calculate Power from Vrms X Irms will give ERRONEOUS RESULTS when the instantaneous V(t) and I(t) are out of phase. You really need to let the scope do the instantaneous product and calculate the mean power in (and mean power out) to get reliable results.


Hope this helps.  I offer the use of my expertise and equipment if any one wants to try this independent method of evaluating the input and output POWER reliably and accurately.  My time is limited, but I'd be glad to help where I can. 

I'm going to go ahead and attach an example of what I'm talking about -- from a very low-power circuit I've been studying, data acquired today.  (See attached.)  The red waveform represents [ Vin(t) * Iin(t) ]  and the mean value of the input power is calculated over numerous cycles.

Note that I take the mean power over many cycles using the math function of the scope, to get greater accuracy (it's a bit dubious to rely on mean power over just one cycle in a case like this).

[AmericanMan31]

BTW for anyone thinking about ordering from Magnetec.. They ship FAST, like, SAME-DAY-FAST!!
I ordered my M-417 from there and I already Missed the first delivery attempt..And I live in Oregon, so be SURE to be home when they ship it! 

[Mavendex]

Hey Mav,

Hep me here... 6V @1A in? Am I reading that right? Then 108 and 108. I'm not critical just trying to follow what you are saying since it sounds as if you're having positive progress.
BTW did you insulate between the halves of the steel doughnut and what material are you using for your secondary core? AWG of inner and outer? Secondary dimensions and turns on it?
Man, now I know what it feels like to pester (lol).
Keep it flowing Mav...

6V @.9A in this is what the toaster(s) are consuming all together now instead of a full on 120v, the 108 is 120 volts from the wall and .9 amps with a pf of .94, the secondary is at 108 and 1 amp with a pf of 1. There is 116 Va this is the reactive power. now in a sense if I can get it to consume 0 volts and 1 amp then we are essentially useing 0 watts and everything is reactive and it flows back and forth to and from the source so eventually it will be nothing.

BTW did you insulate between the halves of the steel doughnut yes

what material are you using for your secondary core the same nanoperm core

AWG of inner and outer?both 16 still

Secondary dimensions and turns on it? enough to fit inside the outercore, and alot probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 or so but im doing my turns a bit different than the conventional method. More length of wire and less turns has given me better and better reactance.

Tips and Tricks:: I have found that you should have your inner widings and outer core as tightly packed as possible, Theory on that is most of the magnetic juice so to speak is confined to the outershell.

Theory on the extra energy, Its a vacuum of magnetism if you have high pressure and low pressure in perfect atmospheric conditions you get tornadoes, if you look at it from the top down and visualize that when energized you have a clockwise motion of magnetism and a counter clock wise motion of magnetism EMF going one way, Back emf going the other. at least thats the general idea. Along with all the tricks of high reluctance cores and low reluctance cores there is a window to where it works best and not so good at all.

The more reactant you have the better it is and so far I haven't found a limit on how reactive I can make it.

Mav

[casman1969]

Thank you Mav for the detailed explanation. This is what open source is all about and you are right up there with Bruce in being transparent. It's making my visits here so much more enjoyable and I can't get over how troll free this thread appears to be.
Following your progress daily.

[Magluvin]

Hey Mav

Great stuff.  In your description, it sounds like you have a two core Russian rag doll where the secondary shares the primary core(shell) and the secondary has its own separate core. 

Ill be showing my doll soon. Rewinding for higher no. of turns and finer wire to get it to operate in the audio freq range. its just a baby doll.  lol   

Thanks for all your doing Mav.  You will need a vacation  "wind" down. ;]

Mags