Capacitor Energy Transfer Experiments - A False Enigma

[poynt99]

Magluvin,

You should know as it appears you are unaware, that not only are you off-topic, but the topic of capacitor energy transfer and the so-called "discovery" has been covered a number of times elsewhere in this forum. What you really need before you get that drink, is to obtain a clear understanding of capacitors, capacitor voltage, and the energy stored in them. THEN you will know why and how you are able to charge up these capacitors to higher voltages.

Here are a few links to get you started in your quest:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8334.msg210138#msg210138
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8334.msg210142#msg210142 (read the attached file carefully)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6090.msg143812#msg143812
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4419.msg148098#msg148098
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capeng.html (play with the values and see the effects)

So you may see that you are not the first to have fallen into the trap involving capacitor energy transfer, and likely you won't be the last.

.99

Hey point

Actually Rose had asked me to post results here, and there are some others paying close attn also. =]

It appears you havnt been paying much attn.    But how could I convince you otherwise, you wont build it.
If you keep believing the formula are correct, then you are doomed.

Let me ask you something.
If you have a 10uf cap at 10v
How much energy does that cap hold? An ideal cap for simplicity.

Now connect that cap to another empty 10uf cap so that each has 5v.

Now you have 2 10uf caps at 5v = 20uf cap at 5v.
How much energy is in a 20uf cap at 5v?

If you have calculated anything less than 100% you are wrong. They are wrong. He is out of order, your all out of order!!  lol

Seriously.  I know ya think Im a freak. I dig it.  Im Magfreakinluvin.


Now tell me how much energy is in the 10uf 10v vs 20uf 5v.

After you tell me 50% loss, I will spit on my shoe and shine it with pride, that I know what is what, and you do not.

Run some tests, spice or on the bench, tell me what you see in these questions I propose to you Point.  If you dont you will never know. ;]

Run the 10uf 10v cap through a 100ohm resistor
Then the 20uf 5v cap through a 50ohm resistor
Each will start out at 1A and descending till drained. Tell me how long it took for each instance Point.

I dont know you Point. But I am just showing you the same respect you had just shown me, and I may have learned ya sumthin.  ;]

Buld it, then you can tell me otherwise.  Does anyone agree? Anyone?

Be cordial and so will I. We can be friends and learn new things.

It wont take you long to become a Believer when you try. I have done all the work to get you to the objective. Convert a 10uf at 10v to a 10uf cap at 13v, energy used to do the switching has not been taken from the circuit to keep the ideal function pure, so we know exactly what is in and out through the process. It is done this way all the time.

Point, if you know about what Ive been doing here the last couple weeks, Ive gone through several pains of saying, na, cant be, its all wrong.  Then I climb out of the box for some fresh air, and it is all too clear. Crystal.     You may have to empty your cup for this one. ;]

Its easy. No complex waveforms to debate, no disrespect Rose ;], no measurements that could be denied, just what was in vs what was out.  The text books will have you climbing the walls Point as you see what is going on in this circuit. Once you see that we can take a 10uf cap at 10v and end up with a 10uf cap at 13-14v, will you still question me? For what? I told ya that was the objective. Where will I have been wrong then, in any way?

We can be cool about this. Its up to you.  ;]

Mags

OK, so 10uF @ 10V into 100 Ohms, and 20uF @ 5V into 50 Ohms;

both have the same tau (RC) and will "drain" in the same amount of time. So what?

.99

[Magluvin]

ok  Well when we run the 10uf 1000v lets say,cap through the believe circuit, when while the cap is draining, we disconnect the cap from the circuit when it reaches down to 700v.  The believe circuit continues to pump the receiver cap to 700v.  Now we have a 20uf cap at 700v!

Do you see the gain?  If we were to take the 10uf 1000v cap and just directly charged another 10uf cap and hold, we end up with 2 10uf caps at 500v each.  20uf at 500v  vs believe circuit, 20uf at 700v!!!

Is there a gain?  Would you concur that it would be about 130%eff in transfer of energy?  Think!  its hard to fathom that it can be real. But it is.  ;]

Does this not compute or what?   ;]

Woopy and I have had a hard time with calculations as they did not figure what we have, on the sim, and an the bench.

Woopy has gone off the edge the last day or so. He is being strained between what he has on the bench and what the books say.

Im over it now that I have seen the ability to go from cap to same value cap and reach a higher voltage in the end. An only the only energy that went into the circuit was a single 10uf cap charged to 1000v, goes through 4 stages(new tests show that is my goal for 2kv out on a 10 uf cap) no other input, and end up with 2kv on a 10 uf cap. Im working on the switching for the end game, for putting the output to the input. Switches.  ;]

Mags

[Magluvin]

OK, so 10uF @ 10V into 100 Ohms, and 20uF @ 5V into 50 Ohms;

both have the same tau (RC) and will "drain" in the same amount of time. So what?

.99

Well, a 10uf at whatever voltage, with a resistor that initially pulls 1Amp, vs a 20uf at whatever voltage, with a resistor that initially pulls 1Amp,   you say they will be drained at equal time periods?  Hmmm, show me.

Mags

[poynt99]

ok  Well when we run the 10uf 1000v lets say,cap through the believe circuit, when while the cap is draining, we disconnect the cap from the circuit when it reaches down to 700v.  The believe circuit continues to pump the receiver cap to 700v.  Now we have a 20uf cap at 700v!

Do you see the gain?  If we were to take the 10uf 1000v cap and just directly charged another 10uf cap and hold, we end up with 2 10uf caps at 500v each.  20uf at 500v  vs believe circuit, 20uf at 700v!!!

Is there a gain?  Would you concur that it would be about 130%eff in transfer of energy?  Think!  its hard to fathom that it can be real. But it is.  ;]

Does this not compute or what?   ;]

Mags

I do not see any gain. Gain in what exactly? Please be specific.

.99

[poynt99]

Well, a 10uf at whatever voltage, with a resistor that initially pulls 1Amp, vs a 20uf at whatever voltage, with a resistor that initially pulls 1Amp,   you say they will be drained at equal time periods?  Hmmm, show me.

Mags

Here was your scenario again:

OK, so 10uF @ 10V into 100 Ohms, and 20uF @ 5V into 50 Ohms;

First of all, in this case the initial current in each is 0.1A, not 1A. But that does not matter for this question.

Second, what exactly do you want me to show you? The time constant (tau) for both cases is 1ms, i.e. R x C = 1ms.

.99