Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[see3d]

Hi All,

While reworking my PDF today, I realized that I could combine some of the formulas and simplify the technical formula portion, so I am taking another day to make it easier to read, and also simplifying my sim in the process.

~Dennis

[fletcher]

Hi All,

While reworking my PDF today, I realized that I could combine some of the formulas and simplify the technical formula portion, so I am taking another day to make it easier to read, and also simplifying my sim in the process.

~Dennis

You were reading my mind ;7) - I had a chance to have a closer read of your pdf this afternoon - I have some clarifications required if you don't mind.

First some housekeeping :

1. Neptune .. you were correct IINM - Mr Wayne did say 148% advantage in Webby's build - he said it was from private correspondence between the two.

2. There seems to be some disagreement about whether the ZED is a pneumatic device or a buoyancy device, or both - both Mondrasek & Larry said in the multi U tube analysis that the mediums could be different density fluids like water & lower density oil or water & higher density mercury, rather than water & air, & show the same buoyancy potential & energy advantage in the output.

.....................................

My feeling is that if an internal air pocket is used then it will transfer pressure - at the same time it will compress its volume somewhat & store PE to be returned later as KE [the spring analogy] once the riser is released & as the head increases - this would be a partial pneumatic element - but we know the energy input to compress a gas & increase its density & pressure is equal at best to its output potential.

If different density fluids were used [virtually non compressible] then this pneumatic spring effect is eliminated & it is wholly a hydraulic/buoyancy device where pressure changes by an increase in head determined by volume transfer from piston water packet to riser cavity volume etc - this volume transfer determines the stroke length & variable power of the stroke, IINM.

It seems apparent that the current internal air packet can transfer pressure from the H2 height to the piston height & that the air packet pressure will be practically the same as the H2 head [this is the startup position of the cycle].

...........................

Generally in sim world it is convenient to know the mass of parts & the system CoM as a point mass equivalent - the work done joules to complete half a cycle [the drive portion] is the increase in PE of the CoM from the start datum - this is the input energy with no losses, viscosity etc, so it is optimal.

N.B. it appears in your sim diagrams that the H2 level is quite a way up the side of the riser wall indicating that the system is in equilibrium i.e. the riser is floating at this start position where upthrust equals apparent weight force.

The system should then reset itself back to datum levels & give back the joules of energy PE gained.

Further observations & comments needing clarification :

1. the work done to raise the piston is by providing a force N.B. pressure is force / area therefore force = pressure times area - so the input force could be provide by a hydraulic piston, for example, which is well known.

2. the H2 to piston head depth determines the pressure head.

3. as the piston is forced upwards the hydrostatic pressures internally change - not only are there upward pressures acting on the all the riser parts [some of these can be combined], but also as the H2 levels rises in height proportional to the volumes transferred, & the hydrostatic pressure acting downwards on the piston increases [this is the hydrostatic paradox] - this increase in hydrostatic pressure acting downwards must be overcome & included in the work done input [I didn't recognize it in your net force formula's & diagrams].

In conclusion FWIW I currently see this sim as fundamentally a hydraulic/buoyancy system because any air compression [i.e. reduction in air pocket volume] reduces the stroke height until that PE is given back & the air expands again.

I'll be looking into it more closely as time allows but these are my initial off the cuff comments.

[TinselKoala]

@Webby... thanks for your kind offer, but please don't consider sending me anything you've built. I can't handle that kind of responsibility! Golly, what if the world's only portable OU device gets dropped by UPS or something...

I'll tell you this though: if you have an easily portable system that you can set up on a table and demonstrate more work out than in, reliably and repeatably, no matter how small the gain as long as there  IS gain.... then I can "walk it through" at a laboratory that I know and trust, will full IP protection for you, MrWayne, me,  and so on. And a positive word from these people will go a long way.

So my advice would be this: get to building. Build a better, more stable system just like the one you've got now -- not too many design changes, since this design works, right? -- but without leaks and wall friction/interference, and test it by  making good precise and accurate measurements. When you see consistently more work out than in, and are confident that it will travel, I'll PM you the information about the lab and the personnel there and you, and MrWayne, can decide whether or not you want some official, hard-science types to confirm your discovery or not. My role will then only be that of the "arranger", all the testing and evaluation would be done by them. Am I talking about ETI? I could be. I could also be talking about SwRI: Southwest Research Institute, located in San Antonio.
https://www.google.com/search?q=southwest+research+institute

From the Wiki:

Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), headquartered in San Antonio, Texas, is one of the oldest and largest independent, nonprofit, applied research and development (R&D) organizations in the United States. Founded in 1947 by oil businessman Thomas Slick Jr., SwRI provides contract research and development services to government and industrial clients.
The institute consists of 11 technical divisions that offer multidisciplinary, problem-solving services in a variety of areas in engineering and the physical sciences. More than 2,000 projects are active at the institute at any given time. These projects are funded almost equally between the government and commercial sectors. At the close of fiscal year 2011, the SwRI staff numbered 3,046 employees and total revenue was $581 million. The institute provided $6.1 million to fund innovative research through its internally sponsored R&D program.
A partial listing of research areas includes space science and engineering; automation, robotics, and intelligent systems; avionics and support systems; bioengineering; chemistry and chemical engineering; corrosion and electrochemistry; earth and planetary sciences; emissions research; engineering mechanics; fire technology; fluid systems and machinery dynamics; and fuels and lubricants. Additional areas include geochemistry and mining engineering; hydrology and geohydrology; materials sciences and fracture mechanics; modeling and simulation; nondestructive evaluation; oil and gas exploration; pipeline technology; surface modification and coatings; and vehicle, engine, and powertrain design, research, and development.
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[TinselKoala]

@Webby... it sounds like what you are describing is a system where constants aren't, and variables don't !!



(old science joke, sorry)

--TK

[DaveBrit]

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