Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[mondrasek]

All,

This thread started with an Inventor of a supposed OU device coming to OU.com (of all places) to explain the workings of his invention.  The patent for his device was located, the contents of which were also being explained by the Inventor.  For a while there was a mostly respectful dialog with the Inventor as he continued to openly answer questions and try to explain to several forum members who were trying to figure out how his device could work, why, where the energy could come from, etc.

This thread has been overtaken by several who continue to argue about the impossibility of the supposed OU device based on principles.  And while that is fine in and of itself, it has become a constant detraction from the actual study of the patent and device, whether it was intended or not.

So I ask that those that want to argue why or why not a device based on the principles of buoyancy can be OU please start a thread for that purpose.  Let those who wish to discuss the device disclosed by the Inventor at the beginning of this thread and in the later disclosed patent please continue to do so without your constant interuptions.

The interuptions have already driven off (for the moment) from the OU.com forum the best source for answering questions about the physical device described at the start of this thread and in the patent.  That should be considered regretable to all.

If you would like to show how this device cannot work, please stay.  But please show your analysis of the specific construction disclosed in the patent or the other models that are being analyzed.

Respectfully,

Mondrasek

[LarryC]

@All,

My earlier statement:
'(1) The Nonlinear effect due to air compression/expansion requires less weight to make more pressure on the down stroke, and less pressure to make more lift on the up stroke.'

Understanding this concept is another important step in understanding the OU in the Travis system.

The first attachment shows the Zed at 4.8 PSI and at 8 PSI to help prove why the increase in lift is Non-linear.
The height values are all relative and the lift values are based on the height of water on the pod and the difference in height of water between two adjacent water columns.

They show that at 4.8 PSI there is 33.5 units of lift value, and at 8 PSI there is 130 units of lift value. So the lift value of 130 units is 3.88 times greater than 33.5. The PSI of 8 is only 1.67 times greater than the 4.8 PSI. This non-linear increase of 3.88 output at 1.67 input is due to the compression of air as the water head aligned. Note that there is also less air in the channels between  PSI 4.8 and 8.

The second attachments is showing the 'Non Linear Zed advantage over Hydraulic cylinder' again.

I would appreciate a PM from anyone who is not understanding and where my explaination can be improved.

Regards, Larry 

[Low-Q]

Incidentally it amuses me that people want to see measurements of input and output. How do you measure the input of a machine that uses no external input?

It should not be a suprise that energy cannot be created, or be destroyed. So if the machine has energy output, it must be a potential energy difference between input and output to do so. That would probably mean that the input energy is negative. To achieve negative energy one of the elements, force or distance, have to be negative. How do we measure negative distance, or negative force? Both distance and force has to be 0 or more. So basicly, the energy input cannot be measured, because it must be negative - or at least a source of energy that has no origin, and at the same time is constantly decreasing. - still not possible to measure.


Vidar

[mondrasek]

I finally finished the analysis of my ZED model design from a full lift of 80% capacity (12 of 15lbs) down exactly .5 inches which in my 12 inch tall system coorelates to the 3 inch stroke Mr. Wayne is using in his 6 foot systems.  I was analyzing every 1 in^3 of water removed from the Pod chamber starting with a neutral buoyancy condition.  This gave me 8 equally spaced data points (last one is a little less than evenly spaced).  With this done I started really searching for the nonlinear relationships that have come up in discusions lately.  And I think I found something very interesting.

I've posted the picture below before.  At the time I thought the Changing Buoyancy Ratios were interesting.  But take a closer look at the witness lines drawn on the top and bottom of the outermost water column.  The ZED is lowering from left to right.  But the water head of the Outer Riser is increasing from left to right.  So the air pressure inside the Outer Riser is increasing from left to right.

So while the Pod chamber water pressure decreases, the air pressure in the Outer Pod is increasing.  I believe this is very significant and may be the nonlinear relationship being discussed?

Actually I find the relationship pretty linear (since I am not adjusting air volume for changes in pressure).  Its just that the slope of that graph is opposite what one would expect.  Wow.

M.

[LarryC]

@All,

New changes based on some comments PM'ed to me. First, I removed the extra hardware in the center of the POD. Wayne had said the POD can be solid, so this will reduce the confusion. Second the water wasn't balanced between the 4.8 and 8.0 cycle, so it is corrected on the right side only of 4.8. The good news is that someone else has understood why it is nonlinear.

The following is as posted earlier, with updates:


'(1) The Nonlinear effect due to air compression/expansion requires less weight to make more pressure on the down stroke, and less pressure to make more lift on the up stroke.'

Understanding this concept is another important step in understanding the OU in the Travis system.

The first attachment shows the Zed at 4.8 PSI and at 8 PSI to help prove why the increase in lift is Nonlinear.
The height values are all relative and the lift values are based on the height of water on the pod and the difference in height of water between two adjacent water columns.

They show that at 4.8 PSI there is 42 units of lift value, and at 8 PSI there is 128 units of lift value. So the lift value of 128 units is 3.05 times greater than 42. The PSI of 8 is only 1.67 times greater than the 4.8 PSI. This nonlinear increase of 3.05 output at 1.67 input is due to the compression of air as the water head aligned. Note that there is also less air in the channels between  PSI 4.8 and 8.

The second attachments is showing the 'Non Linear Zed advantage over Hydraulic cylinder' again.

I would appreciate a PM from anyone who is not understanding and where my explanation can be improved.

Regards, Larry

Edit: Corrections to 8.0 numbers.