Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[TinselKoala]

The ZED tanks contain air and water only.
The hydraulic (oil) system is external to the ZED(s).

Nothing is injected into or taken out of the ZED system once set up and operating.

So when MrWayne says "we take out 30 cubic inches at (some pressure I can't remember) and we return 15 cubic inches at (almost the same pressure)" he is referring to the hydraulic system only. And the 15 cubic inches that drive the motor and are returned to the reservoir at atmospheric pressure. Right?
How exactly does that oil get back into the active system of rams? It appears that the answer is that it is SUCKED UP by the rams and squirted into the pressure side of the hydraulic system. A process that does not come for free.
Am I still wrong?

[TinselKoala]

mondrasek said,

Then when the ZED is going down hydraulic fluid would be pulled back into those same hydraulic cylinder chambers above the ZED from the reservoir.

Thank you. This is a process that requires work, does it not?

[see3d]

@see3d:

I am complicating the issue?

OK, fine. I suppose my continued request for real data on the simple three layer system that is clearly overunity by itself adds to the complications, doesn't it? Especially when the fact that we aren't being provided with this data or any other evidence that that _simple_ system is clearly overunity by itself, starts sticking out like  a sore thumb. It's pretty complicated to try to interpret that set of facts, all right.

And LarryC's posting of his most recent diagram is simplifying the issue. Uh huh.

OK fine, carry on.

TK,

My comment about complicating the issue is only in regards to my simulation.  I don't want to mix what I am doing with what anybody else is doing at this stage.  AFTER the simulation is regarded as an accurate description of the statics, THEN we can apply what we have learned to the other efforts.  To do so before that is a meaningless exercise bound to generate false conclusions.

[TinselKoala]

@mondrasek, thank you for your explanations. Let me see if I've managed to get it down yet.
So 30 units are taken out of the pressure side of the hydraulic system, and 15 of that are immediately injected back in at almost the same pressure, and the other 15 are diverted thru the hydraulic motor and wind up in the reservoir ( at ambient pressure ?). Then the hydraulic suction rams draw fluid back up out of the reservoir... and then on the next stroke reinject it into the pressure side? So then these particular rams are just functioning as pumps, they are not putting power into the mechanics, they are driven on both strokes and not driving anything but the re-injection of the oil back into the pressure side of the hydraulic system?

[neptune]

@TK. All the information I have posted in reply to your questions is information I have gleaned from what mrwayne has already posted, and has been posted by me in a genuine attempt to help you understand the system. Re the alternator/generator, Wayne said something to the effect that it was designed for a wind turbine, and was chosen because it works at low RPM. Of course I do not have a part number/ specification. So from what I am told I naturally assumed it to be a permanent magnet alternator, as is the normal practice. Will it work as a motor? I do not know for sure but I expect that if it was fed with a 3 phase AC supply it would work as a synchronous motor, but that is not its purpose in this machine based on what we have been told.
        You asked at what pressure is the reservoir. In the hydraulic systems that I have experience of, the answer is atmospheric pressure. The reservoir has a filler cap to top up the fluid, and this is usually vented to atmosphere. I am not sure if the
reservoir is above, level with, or below the rams on top of the zeds which act as pumps, hereinafter referred to as production rams, that is Waynes terms. Let us assume worst case scenario and say below. In that case, yes a small amount of work would be needed to return the fluid to the system.
        Please bear in mind that I am engaged here in a genuine attempt to help you. If you would rather I desisted, just say so.