Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[mondrasek]

When you first described your apparatus I thought that the water went INTO the chamber itself at the bottom center, just like the Zeds and just like I have been told is correct.

The water DOES go into the Pod chamber (ZED central chamber that houses the Pod) itself at the bottom center. 

Pouring it in your fill tube at the top, letting it run down and then come into the chamber at the bottom, is not the same as pouring the water into the chamber itself at the top.

What?  At what point anywhere did you think I would or should pour water into the chamber itself at the top?

The water is poured into a fill tube that allows it to run into the Pod chamber at the bottom.  The purpose of the fill tube is to allow for the rise in water in the tube that creates the increase in pressure of the water and overcomes the pressure in the ZED so that it will enter it from the bottom.

I don't know if we are having some confusion with terminology or if my descriptions and photos have caused some misunderstanding of what I have made, measured and posted.  Does anyone else know where the disconnect is?

M.

[LarryC]

@All contributing replicators,


Bravo, for the excellent exchange of information, it is most enjoyable to us non-replicators. You are a great example of people from around the world working together to accomplish a common goal. Keep in mind, there is an army of people behind you cheering for your success.


With much respect, Larry

[AmoLago]

To view it another way the blue water packet could have been raised quickly so that its bottom was level with the top of the green container - that's a lot of work done as it has raised the PE considerably - then the water could flow across until the right vessel was full & the left empty - the difference in work done/energy in this scenario & final resting PE's at equilibrium is energy lost to viscous & drag forces of fluid dynamics - IOW's the KE of the steep flowing water, after accounting for losses, does not equal the extra PE put into raising the left container to create that gradient of fall & therefore velocity for KE of flowing water.

Bottom line - Work is done just as you predicted to transfer water across by lifting one container.

Hi Fletcher,

I was thinking about moving water from one tank to another last night and how to reduce the required work required to do it. Just to stress again at this point that my understanding is very limited and unlike Neptune, I really am the idiot in the room

Looking at your post, I'm wondering if you were to give the green tank some "Virtual Water", does this make a good difference in reducing the work required to generate the final PE? From watching TK's video, it seems that with "Virtual Water" you could generate the same 250kg of weight in the green tank, but you wouldn't need anywhere near the starting 125kg of blue water to get there.

I realise that you could not use all the PE generated by the 250kg in the green tank using this idea over an entire distance moved because as work was done in some way the weight caused by the "Virtual Water" would reduce rapidly. But if you say only needed to raise 50kg of blue water over the distance of, from the looks of your drawing, 0.5m, (which I believe means you're doing 25kgm of work), and from this if you could generate an average from the green tank 250kg down to 25kg over the same 0.5m by lowering the green tank away from the "Virtual Water", which I guess averages to 137.5kg over .5m, does than mean you do 68.75 kgm?

Then, to return the the drawing to the initial state, I don't think you'd need as much work again, as you could move the "Virtual Water" up out of the way, then lowering the blue tank and raising the green tank (which would require 25kgm). The water would level out in to the blue tank again and once the moves complete, re-lower the "Virtual Water" back into the green tank to it's original position.

So Input = 25kgm lift blue)+ 25kgm (lift green after stroke) = 50kgm + lowering of empty blue tank + raising and lowering of "Virtual Water"
And Output = 68.75kgm

I assuming I've got this wrong and have again mis-understood something, but then again, just in case I haven't...

Amo

[see3d]

On units: if you use Imperial units, it's easiest to use ounces and inches, or pounds and feet, and not mix them like "ounce-feet" or "pound-inches". 

If you use "metric" please use either SI, which is kilograms meters and seconds, or cgs, which is centimeters grams and seconds. The very best is SI because then you can use the named units of energy and force like Joules, Newtons, and so on, but for small weak systems cgs is fine.

Conversions are relatively easy to do, for example:

1 pound (force)  foot = 1.35581795 newtons meter

and here's a calculator that will do any unit system conversion you need:

http://www.unitconversion.org//unit_converter/energy-ex.html

TK,
I would like to comply with your request, but I don't like setting myself up for failure.  I wanted to keep all units consistent.  Inch and Pounds are the only least common denominator units because of PSI.  Feet is a totally unworkable unit for things smaller than a car.  No measuring scales work in decimal fractions of feet.  I only have one work output which is in inch*pounds.  Conversion to foot*pounds is just divide by 12.  I think I choose the right units to keep out of trouble with mixed units.

For metric, I don't really care, because it is just a single output conversion in the display routine.  However, cgs would more closely match the output field sizes.  I suppose that ml would be the volume that matches it as a cm^3.

[see3d]

Does this help?

Riser 1.5235 to 1.5295
riser 4.904  to 4.921

pod   1.0665 to 1.071
pod   3.6205 to 3.629

pod retainer 4.856
inside pod retainer 5.0155

lift .787

reservoir lift with 55g +on riser 30g water height 6.5065
reservoir lift with 75g +on riser 27g water height 6.0235

material thickness .0075 to .0085
start position of riser was resting on retainer as per you sim.

Webby,

Thanks.  I put in the numbers that seem to match, but I don't think I understand the retainer ring placement and how that corresponds to my sim model.

Riser diameter is between 38.7mm and 38.85mm -- Riser 1.5235 to 1.5295 -- 0.763 in R
Riser height is between  124.57mm and 125mm -- riser 4.904  to 4.921 -- 4.913 in
Weight is 22g (I have superglue a washer on top)
Pod diameter is between 27.09mm and 27.2mm pod   1.0665 to 1.071 -- 0.534 in R
pod height is between   91.95mm and 92.17mm pod   3.6205 to 3.629 -- 3.625 in
weight is 18g
pod retainer 4.856 in
inside pod retainer 5.0155 in
Pod chamber volume is 84ml -- 5.126 cu in
first gap between retainers is 32ml (this one is not used) -- 1.953 cu in
second gap is 43.8ml -- 2.673 cu in
Pod chamber WITH pod inside and held down is 28ml. -- 1.709 cu in
material thickness is .19mm to .22mm -- material thickness .0075 to .0085 -- 0.008 in
Only a few runs so far but the numbers are strange and I am having to hit the base a lot and hard to shake things down.
lift stroke .787 in
start position of riser was resting on retainer as per you sim.
Added mass on riser 55g lift 20mm -- reservoir lift with 0.121#  0.787 in
reservoir fluid 30g lifted 165mm  + on riser 0.0661# water height 6.507 in
added mass on riser 75g lift 20mm -- reservoir lift with 0.165#  0.787 in
reservoir fluid 27g  lifted 153mm  + on riser 0.0595# water height 6.0235 in
forgot to add that the setup likes to change itself but I am trying to use a centered water to air start position.