Recirculating fluid turbine invention

[pese]

Tks,

In overview both systems
(air and liquis fkid()
it is possible that the forces comes from
shock-changing its termal souronding
between time of compression and expanding
(like heat-pump?)

so i remember that also anthirs usefully (?) system
was found , that worked both wit gas and liquid fluid.
-an motor that worked with compressed "FRIGEN",
it is know ?. It was not "PAPP" ! This ist enother
stroke Motor wit "nobel-gas" ....

I look to find out and add..
G. Pese

[quantumtangles]

Thanks again Pese.

The whole idea of an 'air bubble' in which combustion takes place (rather than inside a cylinder) combined with the idea of using the fuel itself as a working fluid (as well as fuel for combustion) is very interesting.

In the first mathematical model of this machine, I considered using light crude oil to power an impulse turbine and using the same oil as both a working fluid for the turbine and also to fuel a combustion engine to recirculate the fluid striking the turbine.

But I abandoned the idea for a variety of reasons. I did not like the idea of using light crude oil (I would be pleased to invent anything than another way to harm our planet) and I knew that working fluid used to power the combustion engine would somehow have to be replaced.

I much preferred the idea of using seawater, despite its corrosive tendencies, because it is plentiful and relatively dense compared to fresh water (giving more punch per cubic metre).

Even castor oil as a buoyant working fluid floating up through tank A (due to its lower density) did not appeal to me because the energy gained from its positive buoyancy (floating to the top of tank A) was lost when its lower density as a working fluid was taken into account. Counter-intuitively there was no net energy gain.

Oil also mingles with water to a certain extent, decreasing flow rate. Flow rate problems also arise from high viscosity at low temperatures. So oil is a horror story as a working fluid or fuel (if you want to generate clean energy).

But yes I like the idea of a combined combustion engine turbine, with combustion chambers in vortices actually inside the working fluid, possibly generated by shock waves or thermal anomalies. Very interesting.

I am not sure if the working fluid in the second device you refer to is dichlorodifluoromethane (freon 12) or a noble gas (such as Neon, argon, krypton or xenon). They all have low boiling and melting points (useful in refrigeration).

Kind regards and thanks,

[frii143]

I'm wondering what if you used a body of water deep enough that had a crush depth equal to the pressure in the tank and redesigning the tanks into a system to produce energy? (may be submarine design out of floats that take on water. Then crushes and shoots the water it takes on to sink, through a tube to a generator, then back out into the ocean again. then has springs that push it back open above the crush depth drawing in water like a pendulum movement.)

I'm wondering also what would a pipe that zig zag's have reduce the pressure inside the pipe so water would flow through it to a higher less pressure water depth? 

[quantumtangles]

Interesting idea Frii32.

The only thing that matters in this particular system is not so much 'pressure' as it is 'relative pressure'.

The key question is this: What is the pressure at the base of Tank A relative to the pressure in Tank B.

This value (the difference in pressure) is important because it determines whether fluid can move back into tank A from tank B. Pressure differences also determine the velocity of the working fluid travelling through the upper siphon. If the siphon fluid moves slowly or not at all, due to higher pressure in tank B than siphon nozzle pressure, the machine will produce little or no electricity.

By way of example, if the pressure at the base of tank A is 400,000 Pascals absolute, and the pressure in tank B (due to the air compressor) is 500,000 Pascals absolute, then clearly water should flow through the lower connecting pipe (from the high pressure area) back into tank A (the relatively lower pressure area).

But what about the upper siphon?

At the top of the tanks, the surface of Tank A will be at atmospheric pressure (100,000 Pa). But the inside of tank B will be 500,000 Pa absolute. The water in the siphon will be unable to flow from the lower pressure area at the surface of tank A to the higher pressure region in tank B.

That is why the air compressor nozzle is released 'inside' the siphon nozzle to create 600,000 Pa pressure inside the siphon. This causes the siphon pressure (600,000 Pa) to exceed the pressure inside tank B (500,000).

The velocity of the siphon fluid is relative to the overall pressure (per Bernoulli's equation) and velocity determines force (per Newton's equation F = m.a).

So if you line the usual suspects up against a wall, pressure in Pascals (force divided by area) determines velocity (m/s), which determines acceleration (m/s/s), which determines force (newtons) which determines power output (watts).

Your idea of having submerged tanks is very interesting. The only observation I make is that pressure at the base of tank A (however much it increases at depth by placing it under the sea) still has to be relative to tank B pressure, and siphon pressure must also be considered in terms of the relative pressure in tank B.

In other words, when we increase the value of pressure in one part of the system, we must compensate for this in other parts of the system.

The energy used to crush tanks and expel water would have to be matched by energy expenditure to un-crush the tanks at some later point.

So I am not sure depth would help for this particular system. Although by placing the tanks in the sea, waves of seawater entering the system could supply both external energy and mass. So your idea is an interesting one.

[frii143]

This is a link to water pressure for depth: http://www.calctool.org/CALC/other/games/depth_press

Do you know what a pressure tank is it use in plumbing? Its a tank with pressure the water is force in the tank and it keeps pressure allowing water to flow without having the motor running all the time.