PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

It is true that as the criteria were refined, the following were specifically delineated AFTER the sentence you quoted, .99:

Required is a JT-type circuit, with at least one transistor and one bifilar-wound toroid and it must light an LED to observable brightness in a lighted room (all as I said before IIRC) before the final test with a 1N4148 replacing the LED.

And the winner will check the FREQUENCY also... 
I'm going to add a provisional stipulation that the frequency of input-power pulses be above 200 Hz, to prevent pulsing "once in a blue moon" and also to avoid 60-Hz pick-up.  If you can persuade me this is not a "fair" stipulation, I'm listening.

The winning device cannot be poaching from the grid. 

How's that?  and I do appreciate your checking the criteria, .99.  Rigor without rancor.

And you replied, so you did get this...  Yes, .99, a diode is required.

Further, there are two things going on here --
1.  A contest (with a prize offered) to get the minimum Pinput with the above criteria
and
2.  An effort to measure Pin and Pout -- and thereby the efficiency of such devices.
This is really a separate issue, since the contest does not require a Measurement of Pout.

Better not to confuse the two goals.

[JouleSeeker]

BTW, .99, the sentence you quoted was from a separate discussion on a different forum altogether!  which you neglected to link or even mention....  isn't that a bit odd?

I think the criteria for the contest -- discussed ONLY in this forum -- have been clear all along, including the provision for an observable LED in the circuit, replaced by a 1N4148 diode for a final test using the cap/time method (for the contest).

[JouleSeeker]

  End of 2010 and earlier this year, I followed the JouleRinger work by LaserSaber and others.
These devices are truly impressive in their low-input-power requirements.  LaserSaber's DUT lit up CFLs for hours as I recall off of several caps...  though replication was difficult for many IIRC.

I wonder if any of you could apply the cap/time method to a "good" JouleRinger device using one LED -- and finally a standard 1N4148 diode -- in the output, instead of CFL's (which are notoriously non-standard).  Then we would be able to compare these circuits with other circuits (going forward) in a meaningful way.

[jmmac]

Hi Professor,

I bought some components i was missing and was able to replicate your circuit. It now shows waveforms similar to yours - input current and power oscillating around zero.

Using a 10mF capacitor instead of a battery, i let the circuit run and the capacitor discharged from 2.48V to 1.50V in 104s which i believe gives an average input power of 37uW.
For this setup i used a 2N2222 transistor, Cb = 151pF, Rb = 1MOhm, Ro = 0. The led is red, very bright and needs very little current to light up. It was very visible as shown in the picture. The other picture shows part of a cycle of the input current. The frequency is around 10.6Khz made of very short pulses. I didn't measure the real capacitance of the 10mF capacitor which may have a higher value.

If i try the same setup but change the transistor with the 2N3904, the led is dimmer but perfectly visible and the capacitor discharges in 296 seconds which i believe corresponds to an average power of 13.18uW.

I'm not sure we can conclude much from these results and it's very difficult to compare results from different experimenters since there is no way to measure the led brightness. If i use the diode i get similar discharge times (a little longer).

I also tried running the circuit from the capacitor and charge a second 10mF capacitor via a schottky diode. I let the source capacitor discharge to 1.50V and at that point disconnected the charging capacitor. Calculating Ein and Eout, n is around 0.42.

Regards,
Jaime


EDIT: The coil has 20-21 turns in the primary and secondary with what appears to be a normal ferrite toroidal core. The inductance is unkown.

EDIT2 - The power calculations are wrong. In the first case its 184uW and in the second its 65.9uW.

[xee2]

... replaced by a 1N4148 diode for a final test using the cap/time method (for the contest).

I recommend using RK44 diodes since the forward drop is only about 0.2 volts at 10 ma. This is another kooler discovery.