PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

Steven

as you can see in the first graph below, the terminal voltage trend of my DIY voltage cell powering my LED flasher variant of your SJ1 Hartley-type oscillator is still showing increasing voltage on-load 80 days after start of test on 8th July

i originally thought that its self-sustaining action might be due to energy from ambient temperature, but its also clear from the graph that the ambient temperature has been steadily decreasing since 8th July (as you would expect in the Northern hemisphere!)

when i opened up some previous cells it was evident that there was no corrosion on the electrodes (they were in fact brighter than at the start of the test runs) and i believe that the cell activity is not galvanic (although dictated by the differing Work Functions of the two metals)

since my separator is more dielectric (in fact, in semiconductor range) than electrolytic, i decided to test this avenue and found that i could achieve a cell voltage using latex as a separator!

the control experiment with one of my cells loaded by just a resistor and capacitor in parallel is showing a gradual discharge trend (albeit with quite large peaks and troughs in the terminal voltage), so i think it is safe now to assume that the ability of the LED flasher system to not just self-sustain but actually increase its own supply voltage is due in part to the pulse nature of the load circuit


the updated graph (2nd one shown below) for my 'Tesla Switch' type variant of your SJ1 Hartley-type oscillator is starting to show an interesting trend as the average of the 'charging' and 'supply' cells converge - initially it looked to me as if the systems would just settle into a continued gentle discharge curve, but with the latest battery swap there is a hint of the system moving towards a stable operating level - if this continues then i have a draft circuit 'waiting in the the wings' to test a 4 battery full self-recharge attempt

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Exciting results, NP! 

"the control experiment with one of my cells loaded by just a resistor and capacitor in parallel is showing a gradual discharge trend (albeit with quite large peaks and troughs in the terminal voltage), so i think it is safe now to assume that the ability of the LED flasher system to not just self-sustain but actually increase its own supply voltage is due in part to the pulse nature of the load circuit"

I'm studying this further...  and congratulate your hard work.

The SiO2/C cell is also fascinating.

   I gotta hit the road today and the next several days -- visiting with family and friends.   So less contact here for me for a little while -- but please carry on the great discussion!
Thanks guys,
Steve

[NickZ]

   @ All:
    I agree that there is more than one process going on with the cells. And the galvanic reaction is only one of them.
  First off these are not batteries, nor do they need to be a jump started.  These cells don't need to be charged, at all. Nor do they discharge. Although internal cell impedance or resistance can affect or lower their output in time.  Mostly due to any oxidation of the metal electrodes. 
   The output is perpetual, and with only a single cell a Hartley or efficient Jtc can be maintained working and  running some leds, CONSTANTLY.  For how long? Depends on the particular build. Years possibly.
   The idea is to design "dry cells" that do not depend on galvanics, but on the potential difference in voltage of the two different metals, instead. This means that the metals will not become deteriorated, as with Sacrificial Cathodes, when referring to the aluminum cans, or the negative pole.
   There are many ways to build these cells, and some that don't wear out, so we try to focus on dry or solid electrolytes, to make long lasting cells.
  These cells are able to permanently run the oscillator circuits, without having to make any other changes to  your oscillators.
   The last picture of the Hartley has been running for days, (about a week or more now), and is still doing well, another two cells have been lighting a red led for over two weeks now.  Which is about as long as I've been working on this particular cell idea.

[wattsup]

@JouleSeeker

Here is a thought process about charging those small 1.5vdc AA batteries.

I had mentioned this on OUR about standard batteries not being able to handle more them 20% of their amperage rating as a recharge and maybe in many cases it is better to put more batteries in parallel if the recharge has a higher amperage then the 20%. Some said putting them in parallel is dangerous but that is simply crazy talk at the levels we are discussing. I don't know for small batteries if the 20% applies or if it is far less then that.

I many cases, when I am confronted with a problem I try to look at the conventional or commercially available methods. In this case what I am thinking is that the standard battery chargers that are commercially available on the market like those small wall socket plug in battery chargers have been developed over the years by the major battery brands and they must have spent some pretty serious money on R&D to find the best trickle charge method to both quickly and completely recharge their batteries. So why not use their R&D in your research.

If you take one of those chargers and scope the output as it charges a battery, maybe this will give you some better parameters. Even open up the circuit and scope around to have a better idea on how the majors go about charging these AA batteries and see where your circuit could fit into such a scheme.

The problem with our OU destined devices charging batteries is that in most cases even though the battery may show it is recharged to 1.5 vdc, the battery does not possess the same attributes of power output longevity. It has happened to me so many times. As soon as you put on a load, the voltage drops so much faster then if the battery was charged by a standard charger.

Just some food for thought. Some of the majors must have spent millions on such R&D so why not use their know how which is proven to work.

Also, maybe consider using more of your circuits in parallel. I have found that in many cases pulsing one toroid or two toroids makes no difference on the supply side and there is more then enough energy circulating to energize more then that one. The energy being used may not be totally used by the single toroid but may better be used by more toroids. The effects you guys are creating are so subtle that I am sure more would produce more.

wattsup

[JouleSeeker]

  Some good ideas, wattsup -- thanks.

  "Air" + penny battery from Lidmotor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BKkVY0xpw&feature=uploademail

  I'm on the road the next several days... love to visit family and friends.  But I've brought my revised circuit along and I'm getting some interesting results.  Just to mention one -- the supply batteries (2 AA rechargeables in series) maintain a constant 2.50 Volts (may vary in the mV range, but not measurable on my little DMM) while running an LED red, brightly -- and charging 2 AA rechargeables in parallel...  for over 24 hours.

  Note that I've removed the CSResistors.  Lo and Lb are 354 and 355 uH respectively, R is 51Kohms, Q is 2n2222.    Bifilar-wound toroid described in the first few posts of this thread.   

Before posting numbers on the recharge voltage rise, I want to repeat the experiment - this time with a control.

Gotta run -- on the road again.

Steve

[nul-points]

[...]
  I'm on the road the next several days... love to visit family and friends.  [...]
Steve

have a good trip, Steven - look forward to comparing results of the charging tests on your return