Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[profitis]

milehigh,if its true what you said then could you perhaps tell me where this man steven j.smith is wrong as his theory supports a re-enforcing of the magnetic field at the moment the switch is opened via curie point transition.

[conradelektro]

Wrong Coils:

Version 2 of my ring magnet spinner runs, but the white coils are obviously of the wrong kind. The power draw of Version 2 with two white coils is much higher than of Version 1 with one black coil. And this is not only the lower DC resistance of two white coils in parallel (white coils each 90 Ohm, the black coil in Version 1 has 265 Ohm). Much more current for the same rpm (comparison Version 2 with two white coils and Version 1 with one black coil). The factor is at least 4 times more power requirement for the same rpm.

Please look at my  Reply #1181 on: April 21, 2013, 10:48:15 PM for Version 1 of the ring magnet spinner.

I will mount two black coils (each 265 Ohm DEC resistance) in Version2 for comparison. But it will take till tomorrow.

The ball bearings in Version 2 (inner diameter 5 mm, outer diameter 16 mm) run very smoothly and quietly, no rattling and almost no vibrations at 5000 rpm. But they still drag a bit. I will give them the acetone treatment (suggested by ALVARO_CS) after I have measured performance of Version 2 with two black coils (in order to have a good comparison with the white coils under the same drag).

Attached are also some scope shot specially for Gyula. They show the effect of the 4700µF buffer capacitor. The diode between power supply and H-bridge was always in place. The scope shot is always over the parallel coils.

Remark: Sorry, this is all about making a ring magnet spin and a circuit for that. I have not yet advanced to "Lenz free generator coils". But I want to have a nice and low power ring magnet spinner before going into the very difficult field of "Lenz free coils". The reason is, I see so many magnet spinners (on YouTube) which use a lot of power. How can one ever hope to get a self runner with a power draw of several Watts just for making the dammed thing spin? Which "magic generator coil" will ever produce several Watt? I have shown a ring magnet spinner (Version 1) which spins at 8400 rpm with less than 0.5 Watt or at 3000 rpm with less than 0.15 Watt, see my  Reply #1194 on: April 22, 2013, 06:40:53 PM. And I hope that I can beat that with Version 2.

In the mean time (while I am building my spinner) the good people who claim to have a "magic coil" should at least show careful input and output measurements (INPUT for driving their spinner and OUTPUT from the magic coil). I do not demand that they disclose their magic, just the measurements. Skycollection, Thane Heins, synchro1, how about that?

Greetings, Conrad

[gyulasun]

Hi Conrad,

Just a quick observation:  the distance of the white coils from the ring magnet seems to me much less than the distance with the earlier type coil.  Also, the cross section area of the core of the white coils seems to me also higher than the other coil. So these two factors may mean a higher attraction force i.e. a higher input power to defeat the higher attraction force?

Thanks,  Gyula

[conradelektro]

Hi Conrad,

Just a quick observation:  the distance of the white coils from the ring magnet seems to me much less than the distance with the earlier type coil.  Also, the cross section area of the core of the white coils seems to me also higher than the other coil. So these two factors may mean a higher attraction force i.e. a higher input power to defeat the higher attraction force?

Thanks,  Gyula

@Gyula: I had to move the white coils rather close to the magnet to get it to turn. I had the white coils at the same distance as the black coil in Version1 (i.e. 20 mm), but the magnet did not spin. So I found the 7 mm distance by moving the coil by hand closer and farer, till the spin was at a maximum for a given input power.

And yes, the end of the core of the white coil  is a bit strange, it is enlarged like the head of a rivet. May be that spreads the magnetic field at a disadvantage to the push action.

We will see what happens with the black coils.

Version 2 also works with only one coil (it does not matter which one, they have opposing magnetic polarity). And it works with the coils in parallel and in series. Of course, "just one coil" or "coils in series" makes it turn slower and has less power draw.

Greetings, Conrad

[gyulasun]

Hi Conrad,

Okay I understand the positioning.  Do you happen to have an L meter to check the relay coils inductance? No problem if you do not,  just it would be helpful to know for the black and the white coils the mH values because it may also explain the possible force they can exert on the magnet at a given input current.  (The higher the L value, the higher the force, assuming the same current.)

Well, the enlarged head end of the white coil actually may 'increase' flux connection (so to speak), not neccessarily a disadvantage.

Thanks for the scope shots on this newer setup.  I have the impression that the very narrow spikes are cut by the immediate supply voltage change just after the switch-off, I mean some of the collapsing energy may get cut, so is lost from the recovery possibility. This is why the duty cycle would be good to control i.e. making it less than 50%, perhaps it would not influence too much the rpm.

rgds, Gyula