Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Farmhand]

Hi Mags, I think the first post in this thread linked below explains why a toroid can leak significant flux when used in a pulse motor. The reason toroids are considered efficient is because they tend not to "leak flux". If they are made to leak flux that goes out the window so a core with a break in it or a solenoid may work better, maybe not it depends on the situation and what is wanted.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2061.msg31233;topicseen#msg31233

When pulsing coils with not much inductance switch heating can be a problem, also the coil collapse should be directed to discharge into at least a few volts above the supply voltage, in my opinion it should discharge into double the supply voltage.

Cheers

[Magluvin]

Hi Mags, I think the first post in this thread linked below explains why a toroid can leak significant flux when used in a pulse motor. The reason toroids are considered efficient is because they tend not to "leak flux". If they are made to leak flux that goes out the window so a core with a break in it or a solenoid may work better, maybe not it depends on the situation and what is wanted.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2061.msg31233;topicseen#msg31233

When pulsing coils with not much inductance switch heating can be a problem, also the coil collapse should be directed to discharge into at least a few volts above the supply voltage, in my opinion it should discharge into double the supply voltage.

Cheers

Hey Farmhand

I suppose some flux leaks. But decent cores are pretty good before saturation. In order for the Orbo to work efficiently, one would want to power the coil to the point before saturation.
Ever open a car audio amplifier? The power supplies use them. My Soundstream Reference 700 has a toroid cor that is about 2in outer dia and the amp can pull near 50amps @ 14.4v continuous(well, 60khz pwm) and peak beyond, and all that power goes through that toroid transformer. Well most of it.  If the core were to be very leaky or getting saturated, this would be reflected in the audio as the transfer from the primary to the secondary would suffer severely. Its quite a bit of energy these toroids can handle for their size.

The output from a field collapse in voltage depends on if there is a load to capture it, and  how heavy the load is. Unloaded 12v could produce 90v during collapse. But if you use a snubber diode across the coil to feed the collapse back into the coil, there wont be a higher voltage and the collapse will happen slower than if just bipped into a cap or lighter loads. Set up a 12v relay for buzz mode and measure the peaks. Or touch the ends of the coil with wet fingers. Then if you put a capture diode to a resistor from the coil of the relay, depending on the resistor value, the peak voltage will differ.

Like in a switching supply. If there were no regulating of the output, say we disable regulation, the output would be quite high when the output cap is full with no load. Some use a resistor to always load the output a bit. Not just to self discharge the cap.

The oldschool Soundstreams used 'loosely' regulated supplies so the rail voltages were 37v +/- for 50w rating vs a fully regulated Precision Power for the same rated power the rails were 20v +/-.  The loosely regulated supply offers more headroom for those dynamic peaks and still able to hold 20v +/- during a continuous output. But music is not continuous power most of the time.


Mags

[Magluvin]

 Was editing my previous post and a new one popped up all in grey quote box.  Must have hit quote instead of modify.  Never deleted a post. Can that be done in edit?

Mags

[TinselKoala]

The toroid-coil Orbo is a core-effect pulse motor, not an attraction, repulsion, or combo motor. All toroidal coils leak some flux, but the Orbo would work just as well with a "perfect" toroid coil with zero flux leakage. The whole point of the Orbo cycle is to drive the toroid core to saturation, at which point its attraction to an external magnet is _less_ than when it's not saturated. Flux leakage from the magnetizing current in the coil windings plays no role at all. This can be easily demonstrated by reversing the polarity of the current in the toroid. A normal pulse motor will have to be retimed to operate properly with reversed current, but an Orbo core-effect motor will not even notice the difference and will run just the same with either polarity, or even AC of high frequency, to the toroid windings. In fact, the better your toroid coils (least flux leakage) the better your Orbo will run.
And sure, the collapse from a toroid coil is perfectly usable in the usual way, to charge external batteries or capacitors. Nothing to do with how the Orbo rotor is actually driven, though. Steorn's claim of OU included the claim that the approaching rotor magnet transferred some KE back into the toroid (by changing its saturation level on the B-H curve) and that this energy would add to the normal collapse spike from the electrical energy to the toroid shutting off. It sounds plausible.... too bad that the energy transferred "into" the coil from KE is some of the same energy that was put "out" of the coil and into the rotor on the last cycle.

[hoptoad]

snip...
The oldschool Soundstreams used 'loosely' regulated supplies so the rail voltages were 37v +/- for 50w rating vs a fully regulated Precision Power for the same rated power the rails were 20v +/-.  The loosely regulated supply offers more headroom for those dynamic peaks and still able to hold 20v +/- during a continuous output. But music is not continuous power most of the time.

Some of the "real old school" audio "Amps" cranking out 500W RMS Rock N Roll, with a 50-75V  +/- supply rail, are still in hot demand, and many are still in use. Early Marshall and Vox Amps spring to my mind. For the Rock N Roll set, high powered valve amplifiers never died, they've just become the highly priced sought after jewels of the few.

Sorry  ..... off topic  ..... Cheers