Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Magluvin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAZ6heorEc

Mags

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

Here is the key point from your link:

The same amount of voltage, from the same battery, produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil.  This is just one of the many techniques Nikola Tesla used to make his inventions highly efficient.

I am not set up to do any experiments.  On the other hand I have years of experience working on a bench.  I am still assuming were are talking about a pseudo-bifilar coil here like I defined it in my previous posting.  I also explained the logic:  It's the ampere-turns that determine the strength of the magnetic field.  Both coil configurations will give you the same number of ampere-turns.  The fact that this guy makes reference to voltage in his statement instead of current is an indicator that he most likely a beginner to this stuff himself.  It's just one of millions of pages on the Internet, it's not necessarily true.  In fact, his conclusion is false.  Please trust me, I am not stating this to make a fuss.  I am qualifying this guy for you and telling you in all honesty that he is wrong.  You can spend a few hours and find hundreds and hundreds of websites that will confirm what I am saying.

On the other hand, what is your reason for the two coils being different in magnetic field strength?  Can you back up your statement with a logical argument?  Forget about that guy's web page, what are your thoughts?  What about the inductance?

Look, each loop in the entire coil, whether it comes from the "even field" coil, or the "odd field" coil is wrapped around the nail.  Each loop is like a miniature magnetic field generator.  They are all lined up in a row and contribute to the total magnetic field.  The nail "doesn't care" if the loop is from the "even field" coil or the "odd field" coil.  All the nail knows is that there are loops of wire around it generating a magnetic field and every loop has the same amount of current flowing through it.  Can you see that?

If you can see that then that's good.  The goal is to be able to know the basic fundamentals and then apply that knowledge to other configurations.  I can look at a set of pick-up coils and rotor magnets have a decent idea of what the output waveform will look like before I even hook up a scope.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Synchro1:



I didn't say that, perhaps you misunderstood me.  We are always talking about a "pseudo" or "quasi" bifilar coil, right?  It's just one conductor with interlaced windings.  Sort of like an old NTSC or PAL video frame with odd and even fields.  What I said is that the interlacing will not make a significant change as compared to a regularly wound coil assuming the same number of turns for the vast majority of coil applications.  That is the key point.  Do you agree with that?

I don't really understand what your point is here or understand what your setup is.  Could you make a schematic and show what voltages you want to compare?  I am actually pretty knowledgeable about electronics, did you see my comments on Conrad's scope shots?

MileHigh

Syncro posted the diagram 2 pages back #982

I dont think its the same as you have been describing, quasi or even pseudo as I dont recall Tesla calling it that. And he invented it. Got a patent and all. Pat. 512,340

In Syncros diagram pic, it describes some facts as to the coil style Syncro is talking about.


Mags

[MileHigh]

Magluvin:

For the clip you linked to:

Note in the beginning of the clip that he says both coils under test have the same length of wire.  That means that they both have to measure approximately the same resistance.  It's impossible for the pseudo-bifilar coil configuration to change the measured resistance as he seems to be implying.

What he calls the "regular" coil has roughly 11 ohms and the the "pseudo-bifilar" coil has roughly 6 ohms.  That suggests that the "regular" coil is twice as long as the "pseudo-bifilar" coil and has twice as many turns.

The "regular" coil measures roughly 2.8 mH.  The "pseudo-bifilar" coil measures roughly 0.7 mH.  So the "regular" coil is four times the inductance of the "pseudo-bifilar" coil.  That's exactly what you would expect if the "regular" coil was twice as many turns as the "pesudo-bifilar" coil.

So it appears that he is looking at one coil of 2N turns and a second coil of N turns.  That way all the measurements make sense.  There is a good chance that the coil with the 2N turns consists of interleaved "odd field" and "even field" interlaced turns around the drum.

So it is a mix-up on his part, but it all makes sense, you just have to "read between the lines" and reorganize.

Finally, he connects his capacitance meter to the coils.  In the setup he has that only marginally makes sense.  You simply can't connect up a capacitance meter to an inductor and get a reliable reading.  You can't be sure what the capacitance meter is doing and what frequencies it is using and at low frequencies the capacitance meter will start seeing something that looks like a short circuit when it's expecting to see an open circuit.  To make an attempt to truly measure the inherent self-capacitance of big coils like that you would have to do some measurements with a scope and a frequency generator.  He is blissfully unaware of this.

I am using the term pseudo-bifilar coil to distinguish it from a true bifilar coil to avoid confusion in case people start talking about true bifilar coils.  The drawing in posting #982 is a pseudo-bifilar coil.  I discussed the bullet points in that drawing in an earlier posting and unfortunately they are misconceptions.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Magluvin:

For the clip you linked to:

Note in the beginning of the clip that he says both coils under test have the same length of wire.  That means that they both have to measure approximately the same resistance.  It's impossible for the pseudo-bifilar coil configuration to change the measured resistance as he seems to be implying.

What he calls the "regular" coil has roughly 11 ohms and the the "pseudo-bifilar" coil has roughly 6 ohms.  That suggests that the "regular" coil is twice as long as the "pseudo-bifilar" coil and has twice as many turns.

The "regular" coil measures roughly 2.8 mH.  The "pseudo-bifilar" coil measures roughly 0.7 mH.  So the "regular" coil is four times the inductance of the "pseudo-bifilar" coil.  That's exactly what you would expect if the "regular" coil was twice as many turns as the "pesudo-bifilar" coil.

So it appears that he is looking at one coil of 2N turns and a second coil of N turns.  That way all the measurements make sense.  There is a good chance that the coil with the 2N turns consists of interleaved "odd field" and "even field" interlaced turns around the drum.

So it is a mix-up on his part, but it all makes sense, you just have to "read between the lines" and reorganize.

Finally, he connects his capacitance meter to the coils.  In the setup he has that only marginally makes sense.  You simply can't connect up a capacitance meter to an inductor and get a reliable reading.  You can't be sure what the capacitance meter is doing and what frequencies it is using.  To make an attempt to truly measure the inherent self-capacitance of big coils like that you would have to do some measurements with a scope and a frequency generator.  He is blissfully unaware of this.

I am using the term pseudo-bifilar coil to distinguish it from a true bifilar coil to avoid confusion in case people start talking about true bifilar coils.

MileHigh

"Note in the beginning of the clip that he says both coils under test have the same length of wire.  That means that they both have to measure approximately the same resistance.  It's impossible for the pseudo-bifilar coil configuration to change the measured resistance as he seems to be implying."

Is it? 

"What he calls the "regular" coil has roughly 11 ohms and the the "pseudo-bifilar" coil has roughly 6 ohms.  That suggests that the "regular" coil is twice as long as the "pseudo-bifilar" coil and has twice as many turns."

But he is using the same coils as you quoted above "Note in the beginning of the clip that he says both coils under test have the same length of wire."  I did not see him change the coils to one with more turns and one with less. And he clearly specifies that he knows what people might be thinking when it comes to those measurements. I think he has dotted his I's. Im going to wind some coils such as these to try some things to post some vids. Its simple enough.

"The "regular" coil measures roughly 2.8 mH.  The "pseudo-bifilar" coil measures roughly 0.7 mH.  So the "regular" coil is four times the inductance of the "pseudo-bifilar" coil.  That's exactly what you would expect if the "regular" coil was twice as many turns as the "pesudo-bifilar" coil."

Im not sure where you are getting that 1 coil has more turns than the other as those are the first talking points as to each coil having the same amount of copper and the same amount of 'total' turns, just wired differently. But by visual inspection should look identical except for the connections at the ends. The increase in capacitance, as Tesla has stated in his patent is that the capacitance 'neutralizes' the self inductance of any given current that may be employed. So thats why the inductance measured lower.


"So it appears that he is looking at one coil of 2N turns and a second coil of N turns.  That way all the measurements make sense.  There is a good chance that the coil with the 2N turns consists of interleaved "odd field" and "even field" interlaced turns around the drum."

When he is testing the coils for resistance and inductance, he is only testing the coils of the same total number of turns. He did show a third coil earlier but stated it was for trying the difference of interlaced series bifi and a different way of having 2 layers, where the top layer starts at the beginning on top of the first thus giving 50% of input voltage difference between inner and outer adjacent turns. I havnt seen if he made a vid on that yet. But I think it might not be as effective at 'neutralizing' the self inductance as the series interlaced, as the first and second layers still have their adjacent connecting turn acting like a normal coil voltage difference between adjacent windings. I think it would be somewhere in between series bifi and a standard coil with a cap across its leads. And I only say that it is between the 2 because the capacitance is still built into the windings, just not between every successive connecting turn. 
And he has the coils labeled as to what they are.


"Finally, he connects his capacitance meter to the coils.  In the setup he has that only marginally makes sense.  You simply can't connect up a capacitance meter to an inductor and get a reliable reading.  You can't be sure what the capacitance meter is doing and what frequencies it is using.  To make an attempt to truly measure the inherent self-capacitance of big coils like that you would have to do some measurements with a scope and a frequency generator.  He is blissfully unaware of this."

I have to agree. The best way to measure the capacitance is to measure the capacitance between the 2 windings while the windings are open on each end, as in not series connected, not connected to anything but the C meter. Measuring the capacitance of a normally wound coil, straight 1 layer as shown, I would have to say that you could wind 2 turns, each of individual wire on the core alone. Then measure the capacitance of the 2 pieces of wire next to each other as if they were adjacent turns. Then count the spaces between all turns and divide that measured capacitance by that number. Yes divide, because those capacitances are in series. Thats a huge decrease in capacitance as a whole within the coil. lol the more turns, the less capacitance!! That is a normal coil.

Ive said it for a while now, 2 turns is a series bifi because of Teslas definition of the voltage differences across adjacent turns. But with 2 turns, we dont have much capacitance anyways. But it does fall within the guidelines. 

Now, a series wound bifi, the Tesla kind  , the more turns you have, the more capacitance you have. Quite the opposite of a normal coil where its capacitance decreases with more turns.

So if looking to measure or test the abilities of a bifi compared to a regular coil, I would suggest many turns. The more the better, and for a normal coil, the more the worse.

Testing coils with only a small number of turns will have less noticeable differences, and less detail about those differences. So many many turns to see things more clearly.

Mags