Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

[NickZ]

  Guys:
  I received this from Sea Monkey at Heredical Builders, today, and I thought that you all would not mind me bringing it over to here:

Sea Monkey
    The ongoing discussion at EF has finally
gotten to the somewhat confusing issue
of what "Anode" and "Cathode" means with
respect to semiconductor devices and
electrolytic cells.

The WikiPedia article is correct.

Whether a given terminal on a device
functions as either an anode or a cathode
is dependent upon the direction of current
flow.

For conventional current flow the current
will always enter the anode of the device
and exit the cathode.

For electron current flow the current will
always enter the cathode of the device
and will exit the anode.

This holds true whether the device is a
rectifier or a voltaic cell.


For electron current flow:

When a secondary cell is being discharged
as a source of current the current exits
the cell at its negative terminal (anode)
and enters its positive terminal (cathode.)

When a secondary cell is being charged
the charging current enters the cell at its
negative terminal (cathode) and exits its
positive terminal (anode.)

The "anodes" and "cathodes" change positions
for discharge and charge as the current flow
changes directions. The DC polarity of the
cell remains unchanged.
__________________
Don't forget to do good deeds as you accumulate wealth.

    (Me now):
   I however have mentioned that I don't think that these cells are functioning as other batteries, or pipelines, or anything else. But, are more in line with and similar to electrolytic capacitors, diodes, semiconductors, etz... working like a one way check valve. 

[jbignes5]

 You would be correct Nick as much as the electron volts are concerned. Anything else being concerned only see these as a diode. This is because they are mostly dry or should be. even though the active element is outside and not in the center is only because the center electrode is only a channel and not the negative. This makes a potential dilemma. The outside is active and the inside is shielded but is active as a channel of the focused energy of the surrounding metal. The diode is biased by a steady direction of flow of the focus of energy. Much like an electrolytic capacitor. When we started using the can as a terminal we started to get weird results. This is because of static induction rules where the center is neutral and the inside of the metal facing inwards is one polarity and the outer skin is polar opposite or negative outside of the can. These are static rules and must be included in this process. The solid of the cell is merely a static connection and improves the polarity alignment. This comes from orienting the crystals via surface attraction rules. Since most of the crystals are pyramidal in shape this creates more surface area in one direction only well two in the double ended pyramids, those are mostly balanced connectors. This is where I suspect the diode like action is. It is a combination of aligned surface area. In one direction it flows into concentrated channels of surface area and in the other direction it gets dispersed 45 degrees away on one side totaling 90 degrees deflection per pair of faces. this also splits up the polarities negative and positive into two channels which are also 90 degrees apart with a 4 sided pyramid. 3 sided are much harder to explain but I believe 3 sided pyramids are the strongest and what forms the network of energy streams< like water streams.


Hmmm...

Salt seems to be this 3 sided version of the network. But it is how we defend our electrode that merits attention. Protect the electrode and the metal can survive unscathed. The borax does this. It facilitates repair of the layer of oxidized metal. Yes this eats a portion of the surface but that is how the pyramidal shape is created.

I had the chance to play with a tin can that had Pineapple in it in little bits. I ate most of the pineapple and left a good amount of the juice in the can to react to the oxygen and about 10 pieces of the pineapple bits in the juice. After a few days I read about IB's idea about tin and it does have a rather cool looking metal structure. Well the can got oxidized on that lower portion. So The can didn't oxidize until the oxygen could get to the solution that was left. The funny thing is the oxidized walls are grey in color after a rinse and dry. GREY.

This leads me to believe oxygen is the culprit in these cells. Although the oxygen is needed to form the protective layer that is still highly conductive but not reactive to waters solvent properties. So sealing these cells is the way to go after the right ingredients are attained it should be sealed off from oxygen.

Two updates. One is about the carbon cell. It's at .55 volts and getting drier.
The new cell made with IB's crystals and carbon pulled away from the aluminum and cracked so I need to put it in a container and after two days of drying It was still wet underneath the crystal mix. So drying times might go into weeks here before any use can be done *galvanics/electrolysis*.

[jbignes5]

I had a chance to make what I thought was a proper cell. I filled my glass jar with the new mix of carbon salts and borax. The thing puffed up like a muffin and I jammed the aluminum coil into the jar with the graphite lead as well. By examining the flat version I am seeing growth after it dries or in the drying process. The crystals forming are very clear and thin with a pointy end. The structure seems to grow after it starts evaporating water. It is literally building as I watch it. The mix still looks wet and I think that is because of the carbon. It swells from the water and where the water was it grows crystals in that evaporation process. I think the carbon is being ripped apart and the crystal is what is being build via flow and evaporation of the water from the epsom salts. I tried to take pictures but my camera sucks at close ups. The Carbon makes an excellent back ground for the crystalline structure to be enhanced visually. So it looks like the polarization of crystals are due to the surfaces. Each pointing away from that surface. One structure is conductive and the other is not. This is the diode like effect I am seeing in the flat version. The crystals eventually grow into each other and bond. With one being conductive and the other not you can see why this would be a diode like action. With the one being conductive it's tips are passing charges from the surface of each matter we use as the electrode. Aluminum\Graphite or MAgnesium/Graphite or Copper.


I wonder is they are diamond like conductors seeing that it is using carbon

In the IB flat version it would be easier to have the plates on either side then the crystal can grow more straight. I'll have to do some more work in that area Graphite written on paper should be sufficient for one electrode and aluminum foil for the other.

I also think baking hastens the crystal formation. Of course  slower more even heat would be best for crystal growth and this is what I have been seeing with my flat cell that got ruined. Round geometry would be best for this but it has to be in a aluminum can/graphite electrode or magnesium can and should use copper for the electrode.

[jbignes5]

After Letting it run all night, yeah I know. I couldn't wait any longer, Sue me. Well after letting it run for a bit it seems to be stable at .37v stable while in circuit. I am thinking I got too much carbon in it. I'm gonna dissect this one and learn as much as I can about it. It seems to be not as much in the mix as I thought. My molten procedure is very simple. Double boil the mix and the steam helps melt it into a slurry. once in slurry add the carbon. My first attempt was about 1 cubic centimeter of carbon finely ground. The mix was slightly transparent but had a blackish oily hue to it. I should probably mix the carbon with water first so that it will not fluff up like my first attempt did. Getting the mix to the right consistency is key and that is temperature based. I put salt in the water of the bath so that it's boiling temperature was raised. That helps immensely. Since I have a jar of thick glass I use that to cook the mix. I also let it cool in the same jar and insert the electrodes into it.


I have an anodized aluminum wire coil about 2mm thick and the center electrode is graphite held there with a closepin.


So time for dissection.

He IB whats the mix ratio of your cells.. I need to start making this via formula...

The dissection of the cell confirmed my suspicion that I added to much carbon. It should not rise at all when cooking.

Ok the process has been investigated and this is my conclusion. The formation of the crystal layers should be surface based. Each surface or electrode should be the same size and even the same mass weight. My process was not 100% but I did get a very good cell with more power then the round version.

This is due to the the equal surface area of the electrodes 3"*3" square and not fully covered. The process is tricky to perfect because the layer of crystalline matterial should be very even and uniform for optimal crystal growth. Instantly after I added the new type of cell my led went up in power.  When compared with the old style jar cell. but there is an issue with the graphite paper not adhering to the crystal material. It's too slippery so slight compression is needed to keep the layers together. I think making a form out of old Popsicle stick should do for a frame then pour the crystalline matrix into the form and quickly put a graphite coated paper or some other graphite layer on top.

Many many layers can be built in this way and increase it's voltage staying capabilities. Thickness of the crystalline matrix should be more then 1mm thick. Possibly 2-4 mm, this will be determined based on more experiments. My carbon battery is the weak link and is holding this setup back when the major component is carbon.

The mix I used for this battery was 1 teaspoon of borax, 2 teaspoons of espom and a teaspoon of salt substitute(potassium) and 1 cubic centimeter of carbon finely ground. After an hours of time the fine crystals are appearing. They glint in the structure when illuminated with an led light. The first carbon crystal cell looks to have a good amount of these needle like crystals. They are very long and very thin. The second type of crystal has a 4 sided pyramid on it's tip with a fatter not as long trunk. It's weird but I see two directions of these crystals. Some tend to flourish in bush like outcroppings and tend to be needle like and others group around the other surface are fat with pyramidal tips. I so want to get a pc microscope.

Time to make more of these batteries and see what their limit is.

[ibpointless2]

@Jbignes5


I don't have exact ratio's to my cells. a little bit of this and a little bit of that is what I do.


Are you tempting to build one of my cells? which one?