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Overunity Machines Forum



Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

Started by ibpointless2, November 02, 2011, 02:54:15 PM

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Peanutbutter29

Quote from: triffid on March 25, 2012, 06:21:02 PM
It has an empirical formula of MgO] and consists of a lattice of Mg2+ ions and O2â€" ions held together by ionic bonds. Magnesium hydroxide forms in the presence of water (MgO + H2O â†' Mg(OH)2), but it can be reversed by heating it to separate moisture.It also loves to pull in water from the air.Hence your cooling you noticed.Water absorbs heat.triffid

Hrmm, okay, well yes..no...uhhh.  Okay first we need to look at the connective medium in this case MgOH separate from the Mg electrode (which no doubt has an oxide coating sure).  The connective medium here again is MgOH (it is NOT a good choice for batts, just to show something)  MgOH Once formed (since that's what I'm using) is Insoluble in water and Hydrophobic (to more specifically describe the area to which you referrred: Hygroscopy);  meaning it repells water.  Also, it is not ionic in nature in itself (reference to not being electrolyte or salt). 
EDIT3: It adsorbs heat which is why its' cooler.  (similar to why Concrete increases reaction rate / hardening relative to temperature)

  Now, looking at the Mg electrode it can only be oxidized as its' the anode (-).  Completing a circuit, connects the two half-reactions to allow Mg to be oxidized to Mg02.  The Cathode of the reaction (since there are no halogens or sulfates) can only produce hydroxide.  Current could be increased by creating a salt bridge between Mg and the MgOH to allow an Mg02 to MgOH stage (prolly YSZ or other non-reactive solid electrolyte);  though adding this would require H20.  Note the current configuration does not rely on H20 for production,  but is not any different, because a chemical reaction (electrolysis by electro-potential of metals) is occuring. 
EDIT2:  thinking about it, you could possibly also do 2 single replacements with a KNO3 Agar salt bridge with Epsom on top and MgOH on the bottom.  Possibly could encourage a Mg - MgSO - MgOH reaction....not sure.

Now to PHI how, specifically, are you referring to a silica bed in this case?  Are you meaning a silica sand / electrolyte mix or a metal silicate?  If from a silica sand and "filler" point of view it would serve only as an Ion separator and aid with conduction of ions in the electrolyte (solid or liquid).  IF it's a metal silicate used as a reactant, those would serve well to highly extended the total reaction process;  of course at an equal reduction in e- released per unit time. 
Edit: this longer time would also be related to the acid strength and would have to be able to convert and produce silicic acid in the process. 

Some side notes:
From a chemical stand point one can look at activity series.  (same as electro-potential but segregated by fields as everything is now, but may help with reactions)
http://chemistry.tutorvista.com/organic-chemistry/activity-series-of-metals-and-non-metals-and-chemical-equation.html   (ignore the tutor troll, lol)
Good to see from a chemical standpoint.  Shows the line of where water, and hydrogen will react.  The hydrogen line is of key note as elements above this are pretty stable.  This is why gold will not dissolve in anything less than a strong acid.
Also, take note of halogens as they are playing a role here too
http://marcy-heavywhippingcream.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html
Middle of the page shows the halogens on the right. 
Sulfur isn't a halogen, but is less reactive than all halogens

This means, in ANY chemical reaction (if there is chlorine) the most reactive metal will single / double replace with the most reactive anion.  E.g. Mg and Cl would be a guaranteed product. Then you look at second most reactive etc.  Note, a difference of electrical potential, either supplied externally or provided by electro-potential;  can cause an electrolysis / chemical reaction / etc etc.  (meaning most simply enough electrons or lack of, to meet the required energy level of said reaction). 
EDIT:  This is also why you see an improvement in Substitute compared to Table.  As the Cation is more reactive and breaks apart to attract to anions easier  Potassium - Sodium. 

Lastly, and thinking further about durhams and your silica bed question....making an assumption that you are wanting a separator / filler.  Take a look at Fast-Ion Conductors ;).  I imagine that would be the best suited "filler" in the current battery forms. 

Thanks

Peanutbutter29

Did some testing on how repellant to water the MgOH dry was.  I wouldn't consider it a large hydrophobe as the surface tension was broken by the weight of the drop.  Interestingly, though...once that tension broke it seems the spacing in the powder does "wick" well.  Again particles stay separate since insoluble.
It is very obvious though, if this mixture has moisture...yet another reason for choosing.  Here is a pic of the dry powder used on left and 1 drop added and mixed to right pile.  Huge difference in color. 
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt239/billmckraken/SDC10652.jpg
  A last note also, because of the fine grain to the powder and close proximity to each other.  It does limit surface area for evaporation.  (could use this as a long term h20 source in a sealed cell ;) )

Also, I decided to try something.  I made a quickie video doing it.  Honestly 100% I have not tried this before.  I got the idea from the "pressure cell" and it seems that most other battery designs will follow this pressure = current finding.  So I wondered if it also works on existing batteries

Here's the results on a AAA Alkaline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE4cjUPWDpI&feature=youtu.be

was dead of course and I didn't squeeze hard enough to dent the case (tried to show that at end)  one peeling of outer decal from first grab attempt.  Also pliers were crimpers and not very wide, so overall pressure area was small.

thanks

PS - I saw the comment on youtube IB.  That's a good question.  I was a bit surprised to see the current tested on the first video as it had been 2 days.  I wanted to at least document where it's at with both water and without.   I'll leave this to dry for a week and post another video, your guess is as good as mine.  Though as long as it's solid, I think it will work.

jbignes5




Thanks IB for dissecting it further. You are a trooper. Excellent results. You say it is still producing the same as when first made?


@everyone else. You guys are on the ball... Excellent!

ibpointless2

Quote from: jbignes5 on March 25, 2012, 09:19:30 PM


Thanks IB for dissecting it further. You are a trooper. Excellent results. You say it is still producing the same as when first made?


@everyone else. You guys are on the ball... Excellent!


The power it produces can vary. When first made it was giving me  1.494 volts at 31uA (after 3 days of rest). Today it was giving me 1.450 volts at 100uA. Its older brother is at 1.515V at 300uA. Taking the cell apart showed no negative signs.

PhiChaser

Okay, some other news before the weekend is over...
First, it seems that the epsom salt does NOT corrode my aluminum electrodes! :) That is GOOD!!!
At least the piece of aluminum that I put in just epsom salt and a little H2O about a month and a half ago hasn't turned grey or white like lots of other earlier cells I made. Still looks shiny and new...
Oh, and alum is NOT needed to get voltage/current, just gypsum and epsom salt. Still testing more mixes...

PC