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Overunity Machines Forum



Magnetic Engine

Started by vineet_kiran, February 10, 2012, 08:34:41 AM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sm0ky2

Quote from: Newton II on March 05, 2015, 03:43:31 AM
Steel ball and steel shield are in repulsion because flux flows through them in one direction from bottom magnet. That is the reason for free movement of shield on the steel ball.  Shield will be held to the ball because it experiences more attractive force from the bottom magnet than repulsive force from the ball.

This is not accurate.  What is shown here in that video, no matter how you orient the magnet, the fields will induce in the same direction.
causing Attraction, not repulsion.  follow

magnet [N : S ] -> [N(ball)S] -> [N(steel)S]  OR   magnet [S : N] -> [S(ball)N] -> [S(steel)N]

either way, you have N&s poles attracting each other.

the reasons there is a reduced force between them:
is (1) because the lines ( or direction) of flux follows the shape of the materials.
The ball pulls the flux around itself back to the other side, center of magnetism is near the center of the ball.
   (not exactly at center, because its shifted towards the stronger field of the inducing magnet itself)

in the Steel - the poles are orientated in the same direction, however, the flux is pulled perpendicular to the tangent of the balls surface.
    this is because the steel is very thin, and long. the magnetism tries to travel the length of the steel.
       center of magnetism in the steel is the center of the thickness, but the outer edges of the loop are stretched down the length

also, the attraction point of magnetism in a sphere is a small point tangent to the surface. weaker magnets like the ceramic ferrite shown here,
do not attract the ball very much and it rolls rather freely. a neo will hold it a little stronger, but it still doesn't take much force to move the ball.
The strength of the (induced) field itself in the sphere, will depend on the mass of the magnetizing material, and the strength of the inducing field (magnet).
    However, the attraction force, is only a fraction of that at or near the contact-point, as a result of tangential surface area.
I was fixing a shower-rod, slipped and hit my head on the sink. When i came to, that's when i had the idea for the "Flux Capacitor", Which makes Perpetual Motion possible.

Low-Q

Quote from: vineet_kiran on February 10, 2012, 08:34:41 AM

Magnetic Engine using permanent magnets
I have experimented with something similar a few years ago.


First off: A uniform magnetic field does not attract or repel anything.
Second: If the magnets is repelling eachother, it is harder to remove the iron plate than put it in place when the small magnet is not present.


Some how, the energy you gain by sync. the shielding, will be taken back by removing the iron plate. It's true. I have tried.

Edit: I have already replied to this Feb. 10.th...  :o

Vidar

lumen

Basic rule for magnetic field redirection (shielding)
1: Magnets in repulsion = Strong attraction to shield
2: Magnets in attraction = Little attraction to shield



Low-Q

Quote from: superhero on March 02, 2015, 12:18:31 PM
Here are some consideration you should note:
1- use a shield like mumetal not steel.  Steel in close proximity to a magnet becomes a magnet itself.
2- the shield surface area or size should extend to cover the magnetic field of the magnet to be shielded not the magnet itself.  Meaning the shield should be at least 6 times or more bigger than the magnet to be shielded. 
3- use polymer wheels not steel.  Reduce the attraction to the magnet (Less work).
4- use mechanical gears to synchronize the movement of shield and piston.  Timing is everything.
Goodluck
1. Mumetal is good. It does not as much as iron become magnetized, but it will not make any practical outcome of the experiment.
2. Is 6 times larger something you have experimentet with, or is it just an example of the shields size?
3. Agree. At least something non magnetic.
4. Gears are better than belt transmission - even if the belt has teeth. Less friction with gears, but the timing part will not change the outcome of the system.


Vidar

sm0ky2

6 times may be a useful estimate, using certain magnets, but "field size", and field strength are two entirely different concepts.

Using only one test material of magnets, you may find a relationship between the size of the field and the strength of the magnets to be
somewhat proportional, for instance, a stronger magnet of the same type will produce a "larger" field.

But, different materials have completely different effects.
for instance, when you compare a ceramic ferrite magnet, to let's say a neo.
the ceramic ferrite will have a much larger "field size" than the neo, but much lower "strength".

The magnetic equations predict the relationship of field strength with the square of the distance from the magnet. This holds true in most cases, as the field itself is in fact infinite in size, ever-reducing in strength. What the equations are actually referring to is an EMF, not a magnetized material.

But in practice, we examine what is called the "effective field", and this is what is usually referred to as its "size"
    meaning the spatial area (volume) consumed by the field at a strength at which it "affects" the materials we are experimenting with.
    i.e. attraction or repulsion.

The field domains are much tighter in a stronger neo magnet, therefore the "effective field" will be much more compact.
  While in a ceramic ferrite, the field domains are loose, and the "effective field" will cover a larger volume of space.


It is also important to note, that when shielding a magnetic field, you greatly alter its shape and effective size. This is caused by the field domains entering into the shield material. Sometimes this can produce stray magnetic domains projected far outside the test area, or reduce the domains to far inside the expected volume of space. And often does so in a non-symmetrical manner.

I was fixing a shower-rod, slipped and hit my head on the sink. When i came to, that's when i had the idea for the "Flux Capacitor", Which makes Perpetual Motion possible.