Testing the TK Tar Baby

[picowatt]

TK,  When you do what you do to increase Vpp of the osc, any noted changes in waveshape? (i.e., clipping, more distortion, etc)

As for maintaining oscillations, I am glad you can still dance.

PW

TK,

Also, are you running off your inverter and with no other probes attached?  (i.e., is the circuit fully floated as you do what you do when you do what it is you do?)

PW

[TinselKoala]

@All,

If the circuit draws under 200ma, and the batteries are 60A/Hr batteries, one would reasonably expect this circuit to run for in excess of 275 hours.

But, in reality, one would need to know the A/Hr rating of the batteries at this <200ma load.  Battery A/Hr ratings are usually specified using a specific load or discharge rate.  If a battery is rated at 60A/Hr with a 5 amp discharge rate, its A/Hr rating may far exceed 60A/Hr if the load current is very much less than the specified 5 amp load.  This is typically true for most battery chemistries.  Absent mfg data related to this discharge rate, a load test at this rate could be performed to arrive at the true A/Hr rating at this discharge rate.

Again, possibly the manufacturer has data available at this low 200ma discharge rate, but I would not be surprised if this circuit could run for well in excess of 300Hrs.  To expect as much as (or even more than) 550Hrs may not be unreasonable at this discharge rate with the 60A/Hr batteries utilized.

PW

Yep, that repeats a calculation I've done several times as well. Again, using Rosemary's stated criteria for a "fully charged battery" which is that it measures over 12 volts open-circuit..... and the low current drain.... in the purely negative bias mode heating a load to low heat (50C) the circuit will run for a long long time and still be "fully charged".

This is why there should be three restrictions placed on the Ainslie testing:

First, the High-Heat, positive gate drive mode should be required, since that is a more robust test of performance and, absent battery non-discharging, should take a lot less time, since the current levels are 10 times higher than in the low heat, negative gate drive mode. The papers claim that this mode also doesn't discharge the batteries, and of course the demo does, and Ainslie herself has done so many times. 25.6 million Joules of times, in fact. (Correctly it is seconds. But since 1 Joule = 1 Watt and one Second is one Watt per Joule, the terms are INTERCHANGEABLE, bubba.)

Second.... she should not be allowed to recharge her batteries before the test begins, since she has repeatedly told us that they are still fully charged.

And third, in the High heat, positive gate drive mode, she must be required to use all six batteries for a pack voltage of 72 volts.

[TinselKoala]

TK,

Also, are you running off your inverter and with no other probes attached?  (i.e., is the circuit fully floated as you do what you do when you do what it is you do?)

PW

The waveshape is broadly similar but becomes more sinusoidal as the amplitude increases and the relative contribution of the distortions decreases.

For this run here, as I thought I said in the post, I am using the regulated PS and the pot/10R series resistance, no 50R, and yes, the bias is floating. I am not, therefore, using the inverter, just straight DC from the PS, hooked up "backwards" to the FG inputs at the board, so that the negative supply lead goes to the Q2 sources and the Q1 gate and the positive supply lead goes to the Q1 source and the Q2 gates. The power supply is set to about 5 volts or so and is adjusted to make osc amplitude increase and to regulate the current through the system as indicated on the CVR and the inline ammeter. This is the easiest and most stable way to make the oscillations and the waveshapes that result in negative mean power products.
A battery can be substituted for the PS and the only difference is that the bias voltage is no longer regulated and will decrease. The inverter running off the PS or external battery, ditto. The inverter running off the lowest of the main battery does cause some differences in the waveshape but as I've shown the negative power product still emerges.

So I have the A channel probe at the battery itself, tip to +48 V nominal, reference at 0V right at the battery terminals with no intervening wires and no decoupling capacitors, and it stays there. And I have the B channel tip directly on the CVR right at the body of the resistor, on the transistor side. And I am moving only the B channel reference lead from one point to another.

The effect of moving the probe reference lead on the CVR trace is about the same when I am using decoupling caps, which do smooth the battery trace considerably (but not yet perfectly) or when I am not.

I made a video but I'm hesitant to post it because it will start another three-page rant from YKW. Oh.... what the hell. I'll process and upload it. Should be viewable in half an hour or so.

[TinselKoala]

Um... Seriously?? I mean, REALLY ROSEMARY?!? A FG produces NO CURRENT??
That IS what you're saying right? A function generator doesn't put ANY current into a circuit AT ALL?? Can I quote you on that?? (Oh wait, I just did...)

I have an old FG that is coming in the mail (hopefully early next week) so I will definitely be testing that statement. My collection of analog uA meters (ranging from 0-15uA to 2mA) will show me the (un)truth of your statement in a moment... How to explain those moving needles? More magic??

You should be thanking TK (and the rest of the gang, you know who) for STILL trying to educate you on your own 'invention'... Wow...
I've only known about the RA circuit for less than a year and I'm already tired of her endless deflections and denials... Amazing patience you guys. Excellent work TK!! I can keep up with most of what you are doing and I'm no electronics expert.
Sorry to crap up your excellent research thread, I'm just irritated that RA continues to disparage your work when clearly (to me anyways) you have been trying to leave no stone unturned. Must be low on caffeine..

PC
A daily reader

Thanks, PC, for your comment, and don't worry about "crapping up the thread".  Your post definitely isn't crap, you are pointing out facts.

I hope you didn't buy the old FG just for this purpose.

Meanwhile the last couple of videos show pretty clearly that an old FG can produce current, move a meter coil, etc. But Rosemary has such strong ego defense mechanisms operating that she will accuse us of faking, hiding batteries, and lying about FG behavior before she admits that she is wrong. And there is also the other special pleading excuse she will try: "Oh, a FG might push current through ordinary circuits, but in MY special circuit it cannot and does not."

[poynt99]

TK,

I would suggest you keep the probe gnd leads as short as possible, and together at all times.