Testing the TK Tar Baby

[TinselKoala]

Her brain is not working, that is for sure.
She understands how to calculate DC power. I've seen her do it. Why she does not grasp that a 20 second ON time is DC.... well, I know why. It is because the answer is incompatible with her belief system and her ego defenses kick in and prevent her from thinking rationally.

Consider: She knows that ordinary DC power is nothing special. If there is magic in her circuit it MUST be happening during the oscillations. However, even she has got to be able to see that the oscillations CANNOT POSSIBLY affect what is happening during the non-oscillating DC portion that is 20 seconds long out of a 2 minute period.
And she is faced with the embarrassment of riches that I have been trying to point out over the past day or two. The oscillations themselves, in these few high heat trials that have substantial power in the DC portion, MUST have a high negative power in order to offset the high DC power and bring the average down into the negative numbers.
And I see NO EVIDENCE of that high negative power in the TRACES THEMSELVES.

Therefore she must deny the power in the DC portion. Especially since she's claimed that 1) THERE ISN'T ANY, and 2) THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF BATTERY POWER BEING SUPPLIED TO THE CIRCUIT. But there is, and there is, and it is this that is heating her load  and making her mosfets fail when she tries 72 volts on her battery. She thinks her mosfets fail because of high voltage -- hence her choice of the silly expensive high voltage high-resistance IRFPG50 instead of the cheaper faster lower Rdss IRF830a for example.... but really it is because of HIGH DC CURRENTS and the heat they cause.

[TinselKoala]

More Ainslie "math":

Now.  Conservatively speaking on the water to boil test - we're running that battery current at an outside maximum of 0.1 volts over 0.9 Ohms x 60 volts x 18% duty cycle which represents the ONLY measurable discharge from the battery - and that during the ON period of each switching cycle.  That comes to a wattage discharged at 1.19 watts.  The capacity of each of those batteries is let's say 10 amp hour MAX.  Therefore each battery's maximum wattage potential is 120 watts - being 10 amps x 1 hour.  We use 5 in series to get it to that 'water to boil' point.  The batteries are in series.  So.  1.19/6 = 0.199 watts per battery.  Again.  Each battery has a capacity of 10 amps x 1 hour = 120 watts.  This means that each battery will last 120/0.19 = about 630 hours or so.  Theoretically.  5 batteries will therefore last a mere 3150 hours or so. 3150 hours / 24 means the test should be proved after a test run of only 131 days.  So now the three of us will be able to give you a conclusive result over a little under a 4 months.  That's assuming that any energy at all is being discharged at the battery.  Because we can't find that in the results.

Alternatively - let us assume that we're dissipating not less than 100 watts as measured in the heat discharged.  That would be the amount of energy needed to get a little under 1 liter of water to boiling point.  Now we get to the following sum.  The battery's capacity is 120 watts.  We've got 6 in series giving us a maximum capacity of 720 watts.  We're dissipating 100 watts as evident in the temperature of the water.  Therefore in a mere 7 hours and 12 minutes we would have ENTIRELY discharged all those batteries. 

http://www.overunity.com/10407/rosemary-ainslie-circuit-demonstration-on-saturday-march-12th-2011/msg291308/#msg291308

Disregarding for the moment that 700 ml is quite a bit less than "just under a liter" and that the water didn't boil ...... has anybody actually DONE THE MATH to verify Ainslie's "calculation" here? Well.... even allowing for the continual confusion between the units of energy and the units of the rate of energy dissipation..... I just don't get the same result as Ainslie does. For example..... a 60 volt pack of 10 Amp hour batteries will still only have 10 Amp hours in it... but at 60 volts. Therefore the battery actually contains 60 x 10 or 600 Watt hours (not Watts) of energy. Say her "wattage discharged" was actually the 1.19 Watts she cites (based on the 0.1 volt drop on the imaginary CVR and the 18 percent duty cycle). Well, Do The Math. 600 Watt-hours divided by 1.19 Watts is equal to 504 hours, not the 3150 she arrives at through a combination of typos and conceptual errors. It's a long time.... but it's not nearly as long as she calculated.
Where is the evidence that water was boiled under the conditions of 1.2 Watts average DC power? There is none.
All the temperature and "boiling water" reports from Ainslie that exaggerate her original report of this trial should be take with a cup of oxtail soup and examined carefully for the obvious: significant current in Q1 during the NON oscillating phase of the period.

[TinselKoala]

http://www.overunity.com/10407/rosemary-ainslie-circuit-demonstration-on-saturday-march-12th-2011/msg291615/#msg291615

The second point is this.  According to their rating each battery is capable of delivering about 430 000.00 Joules. 8 such batteries therefore affords a capacity of 3 456 000.00 Joules. The batteries used in these experiments have been used on a regular basis for over 10 months.  They have been dissipating an average wattage conservatively assessed at 20 watts for five hours of each working day, during that period, continually subjected as they were, to both light and heavy use. This amounts to about 14 400 000.00 Joules which is more than 4 times it's rated capacity. Notwithstanding this extensive use, they have never shown any evidence of any loss of voltage at all. Nor have they been recharged except for two batteries that caught fire.

ORLY?

I thought the batteries were 40 or 50 Amp-hour batteries. Or even 60. Let's start with 40 and see where that gets us. So... 40 Amp-hours at 12 volts is 480 Watt-hours. And 480 Watt-hours x 60 minutes/hour is 28800 Watt-minutes. And 28800 Watt-minutes  x 60 seconds/minute is 1,728,000 Joules. Not 430,000 Joules.  For Ainslie's figure to be correct the batteries would have to be 10 A-H and we know that isn't plausible. In fact they are likely to be 60 A-H.

8 such 40 A-H batteries then have a total energy capacity of 13,824,000 Joules, not the 3.4 million that she calculates and 8 such 60 A-h Batteries have 20,736,000 Joules in them.

Now... 20 Watts for 5 hours is 20x5x60x60=360000 Joules per 5-hour day.  If she's expended 14,400,000 Joules overall -- which is quite a bit LESS than her battery capacity, actually ... (Where did this figure come from anyway?) then 14,400,000 / 360,000 will give us the number of days. Right?  I get 40 days.  Not bad for ten months... that's 4 days a month. (I did that one in my head!)

Something really doesn't add up, as they say. Either that or she has a funny idea about what a "work week" is.

Really, folks.... Ainslie's math and other reported numbers simply cannot be trusted unless they can be verified externally.

[TinselKoala]

And a real irony of all this power measurement stuff and overloaded Q1 mosfets is this: If you just use the circuit in the SECOND PAPER, the one with the Q2x4 on the right instead of on the left.... you'd have no problem with overheating mosfets and you'd still be able to get the oscillations in the single mosfet when the gate is LO. In other words, let Q1 on my drawing be a stack of 4 and let Q2 be the lone mosfet and your high current and runaway "cooking" problems would be over.

But no.... we have been assured over and over that it is the single transistor Q1 version from the first paper that is correct. Even though it makes no sense..... since the big heatsinks are on the other mosfets but Q1 is the one carrying the big DC current.

[MileHigh]

TK:

I am just going to repeat my stance on all of Rosemary's battery energy "calculations" and water heating "calculations."

It's all junk, all of it, and it doesn't even merit any discussion at all.

It's all based on imprecise anecdotal observation and allegation.  It's _pure_ junk.  Rosemary should never even discuss it if she wants to try to be scientific and I think it's a waste of time for anybody to discuss it in the forums.

I am just giving you my personal opinion, not telling anybody what to do.  For me in certain cases there are strict absolutes and this is one of them.  Rosemary has probably recounted her various heating and boiling water stories about 20 times and I don't really pay any attention.

MileHigh