RE: HHO Electrodes, nickel, titanium, and carbon preliminary results

[ydeardorff]

Last night I got some major progress in the completion of my cell.
Mine is a modified dry cell that is a full flow design, to eliminate voltage leaks via hole cut in the plates.

I ran a couple of tests using my schumacher car start engine stand.

I ran the tests with an EDM carbon electrode, and a nickel/copper alloy sheet, and a sheet of pure titanium.
The tests were run using various gap thicknesses, at 6VDC an about 12 amps per plate gap.

I found that gaps as small as .020 were inhibiting the gas production, and the wider my plate gap became all the way up to .080" the production exponentially increased. To the point when I reached .080"  the bubbles were huge, and the production was excellent.

Carbon/Nickel arrangement:  .080" plate gap, 6vdc @ 12 amps, electrolyte was distilled water at a solution strength of 3 teaspoons per gallon of potassium carbonate.
Nickel as the anode resulted in blue precipitation and quick degradation of the nickel electrode. Nickel as the cathode resulted in production comparable to titanium, with no precipitation from the nickel plate, only minor soot deposition into the water darkening it. But nothing that couldn't be corrected with an inline filter.

Carbon/Titanium arrangement: same as above except with the following noted. Titanium sheet placed as the cathode produced the same or similarly as the nickel alloy sheet. However when placed as the anode, it reacted similarly to that of aluminum like a rectifier, and no production occurred.

In both cases where production was occurring black soot from the carbon electrode changed the color of the water.

The results were tested starting at 3vdc @ 12 amps, through 12vdc @ 2 amps. There seemed to be a "sweet spot" around .080" and 6vdc @ 12 amps where production was the best.

3VDC produced very fine bubbles, but little if anything to mention.
5VDC produced better, but not quite as good as 6VDC.
6VDC produced amazingly well, huge bubbles, enough flow to burst the tape gaskets on my wet cell test, and create a whirlpool effect in the tank.
12VDC @ 12amps, was negligible in production increase, and not worth the heat it produced.

I am rigging up a two gap dry cell, with the titanium cathode in the center, surrounded by carbon anodes. Once I get the bolts, and seals finished, Ill get her up and running for testing.

Periodic table:
Carbon, naturally wants to be noble, by gaining 4 electrons. This makes carbon a reactive element, that we can capitalize on its properties. Moving to the right on the table places you into the gas elements which of course we cant use. Moving left, plants us squarely, on nickel.
I took it further, Moving further over to titanium resulted in similar effects. As titanium is cleaner, and safer to use than nickel I figured I'd give it a shot. The results were very nice in both respects. I plan to build two identical cells, one with nickel as the cathode, and the other with titanium as the cathode. Once the cells are built, and flow tested, I will post the results.

Now, please correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it from class. All atoms inherently want to noble in their electron, proton, neutron arrangements. Carbon wants to gain 4 electrons naturally to become noble which would make neon. So if I placed titanium in the electrolysis cell it gives up the 4 electrons to the carbon making a neon like full electron valance, and its reduction to 18 electrons make it also noble forming an argon like electron valance. With that said, if nickel loses 4 electrons it becomes chromium, so nickle is out if that's true. That would mean that titanium would be perfectly suited for use with carbon.

The neon and argon atoms produced would no doubt be suspended in solution. But the interaction with the potassium carbonate is still the wildcard I have yet to answer. Im awaiting a call back from the local university's chemistry department on this.

Once I determine the best of these two configurations, i will convert my cell into a separator cell via anionic membranes, so I can utilize just the hydrogen gas independently, or combined as HHO.

This morning I went back to the tank i ran my tests in, and the carbon particulates (akin to what you get when you rub your finger on a pencil tip) settled to the bottom of the tank leaving the water clear. This leads me to believe i should be able to separate the particles in an inline separator. I ran this through a sponge, and it cleaned the contaminates right out.
Next i will see the results in lowering the per plate gap voltage, and equally reducing the plate gaps. i think that if I can get the cell to 3 VDC per plate gap, with comparable production i should be in business.
The carbon soot was about 1/16th and inch deep in the bottom of the tank, with no perceptible degradation of the electrode itself.

If the carbon becomes a problem Ill try the platinum coated hard drive platters, as the anodes to see if that makes any difference.

Any thoughts on my findings?

[ydeardorff]

Bumped for update

[Hydrogenie]

Nice job there ydeardorff.

I don't know why you liked carbon. I don't like to use it because it disintegrates whenever you pass current through it and thus darkens the water. I think you missed something in reading the periodic table and choosing the materials. Also, I am no longer using plate configuration and always start my test without electrolytes. Anyway, I hope and pray for your success.

[ydeardorff]

What do you mean I missed something? Please explain.

Using same metal types reduces production do to not exploiting natural metal reactivity. Carbons precipitation is directly relative to the amount of voltage applied.
I noticed the production is very different from other cells Ive witnessed. The bubble size is huge The minimum bubble size coming from my wet cell test of my dry cell electrodes, resulted in bubbles that were a minimum of the size of a pencil eraser. Not the micro clouding bubbles normally seen. The larger the gap the bigger the bubbles were.

The precipitants clouded the water yes, but pouring the electrolyte through a simple sponge removed them leaving the water clear.

Im trying to get direct answers for my research. Ive been working with metals for 20 years, and working on this project for about 3.
My first two were SS proof of concepts, then after talking to a non nuclear hydrogen production company, I moved to nickel and iron like they use, and finally started testing carbon. The results were energetically better than anything before. This along with the bubble size was much larger, with little if any heat problems.

Some of my verbage was off i know that above. As the chemistry in these cells dont make neon, and argon, but rather allow the electron valance to become full for the carbon, and titanium ions. This makes them stable, and puts them in a state that they naturally want to be. Or so Im told.

Another thing Im working on testing is use of bi-metal bi-polar plates, AKA neutral plates. As each side of the neutral plate is a different polarity, so should they be differing metals. The real trick is joining them so they become one electrically.

I feel there is real fruit in the idea of exploiting metal reactivity, and natural polarity. I havent seen nor heard many getting int the science of this. But rather just slapping stuff together to get results.

Another note was titanium act like aluminum, when placed opposite of its natural state. It pulls the rectifier routine and stops production completely.

Im not trying to defend myself, or my findings, but rather understand more than "that it works". I want to know why, how, and how to make it more efficient, cleaner, and safer to use. The goal for me is an environmentally sound device, that makes the most gas, for the least amount of applied voltage.
Chemists are busy people and rarely are "not too busy" to answer questions. This leads to months worth of reading, and private research. i have been doing this for years, and applying it to my design where I haven't seen other doing this, even though they might be. Reading up and trying to understand half reactions is enough to drive one to drink. LOL But its all part of the process that happens in these cells. The more I understand, the better I can design the cell.

Please explain...

[Hydrogenie]

What do you mean I missed something? Please explain.

To the left of carbon on the row of nickel are zinc, copper, nickel,cobalt, iron, manganese, chromium, vanadium, titanium....I don't know your criteria for choosing nickel or titanium in partner with your carbon.

Another note was titanium act like aluminum, when placed opposite of its natural state. It pulls the rectifier routine and stops production completely.

Please explain...

I don't know what you mean by opposite of its natural state. Perhaps you can describe your setup.