Continuously Flowing Water Theory

[crazycut06]

If you watch the Video below, you will see Continuously Flowing Water WITHOUT a VACUUM AND Vacuum Pump.
It could be Scaled Up so the falling water could drive a Water Wheel that turns a Generator.

FREE ELECTRICITY forever.  Why monkey around with a vacuum???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287qd4uI7-E&feature=channel&list=UL

.

I think this ones a fake, why?
1. As he fills the flask the water did not flow instantly to the bottom hose, it took about 3seconds...
2. Why is that there are bubbles comming out of the hose like something is pumping up the water?
3. The wooden base is suspicious, it should have been built on a transparent platform...
Has anyone tried to replicate this if it is posible?

[johnny874]

I think this ones a fake, why?
1. As he fills the flask the water did not flow instantly to the bottom hose, it took about 3seconds...
2. Why is that there are bubbles comming out of the hose like something is pumping up the water?
3. The wooden base is suspicious, it should have been built on a transparent platform...
Has anyone tried to replicate this if it is posible?

  hi crazycut06,
the video does say hypothetical. I think they made the vidoe to try and get people to think about how
those idea's might work.

  @Alex,
here are some numbers for you. I am listing two sizes for the pump and one for the riser pipe.
sqrt or square root equals radius. 
    pump  1                                                                                                           pump 2
1,500 / 7.5 = 20                                                                                       1,500 / 5 = 300
20 / 3.142 = 63.65                                                                                   300 / 3.142 = 96.48
63.65 sqrt  = 7.98                                                                                     96.48 sqrt  = 9.77

                                  riser pipe         
                                  750 / 15 = 50
                                  50 / 3.142 = 16.03
                                  16.03 sqrt = 4.00

  As you can see, by increasing the diameter of the pump from 7.98 cm's to 9.77 cm's, it's height
only needs to be 5 cm's (2 in.) instead of 7.5 cm's (3 in.).
And the riser pipe ? A diameter of 8 cm's (3.2 in.) I think would be sufficient to easily allow water to be
pumped. And at 15 cm's (6 in.)
By having a shorter pump, it allows for more leverage to be used. With a taller riser pipe, say 25 cm's tall,
then     750 / 25 = 30     
            30 / 3.142 = 9.65
            9.65 sqrt =  3.09

If you notice, I am calculating the riser pipe to have 1/2 the volume of the pump.
And with a height of 25 cm's ( 10 in.), it would have a diameter of 3.09 cm's (1.25 in.).
  I think those are some workable numbers.
With the pump having a stroke of 5 cm's (2 in.), and the riser pipe being 25 cm's (10 in.)
allows for a working room of 20 cm's (8 in.) which should be enough space with your
configuration.

                                                                                                    Jim

edited to correct spelling
edited to add; sqrt or square root equals radius

[johnny874]

  @All,
This is one way a pump could be made. It would have a low profile
but have high volume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2SZIITKnCI&feature=youtu.be

edited to add;  Alex, with your design, it might be controlling the movement of the
2 water tanks that are the pump and reset that might take some thought.
It might be possible for them to be draining or being filled while moving.
The pump could be filled while moving downward and the reset could be draining as it is lifted. You should find out about flapper valves. they are simple yet might work well with this type of application.

[johnny874]

There is another thing that makes me wonder about standards,
why are basically all incompressible liquids measured in PSI ?

We use PSI as a square of the pressure with compressable air as example,
it isn't just per-square-inch, it is a square of the pressure per square inch,
a quadrupling of occupation for every doubling of the pressure.

For those not getting that, think of a printer's DPI (Dots Per Inch)
10x10 = 100-DPI
20x20 = 400-DPI
lousy example, but good enough to visualize compressables like air,
increasing from 10 units of pressure to 20 units, quadruples air stored.

But as water is basically nearly incompressible,
why isn't it just measured as "Pounds" of pressure,
like inches of mercury or hg for a vacuum as example ?

I bring this up because in order to double the vacuum available,
quadruple the amount of gasseous substance must be removed.



Also, for some reason, double/triple/quadruple steam engines come to mind,
probably from the 2:1 ratio your working against in your ideas Johnny.

Perhaps the opposite could be employed to harvest the most effective force,
each chamber being 2:1 larger to reacted to half the pressure with equal force ?

(Note 2:1 ratio from chamber to chamber in pic, then reverse that thought for vacuum)

NOTE:
I just attached an animated graphic interchange file (Ani-GIF),
and the forum resize script seemed to have de-animated it 
(to a single-framed picture instead...)

Download to see animation instead:
http://www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/downfile/id/500/
(Clicking the pic link gets the same single frame pic sadly...)

   CompuTutor,
Think you could do an animated gif of this type of wheel. Continuous rotation might allow for most efficient use of energy conversion. If so, I know I would appreciate it as well as everyone in here.
It is as you mentioned about doubling or quadrupling force, with leverage, it becomes possible. This is one reason why with the "logic problem" as you rightly called it that a pumps volume is not necessarily entirely based on height. With a shorter stroke, the difference in the height of the static head and the lever acting on the pump becomes greater.
With your engine, the 3 cylinders would need to be at different elevations so as the water flows downward, it's mass being acted on by gravity is the greater force.
One way to do it might be to have the pistons tilt at the bottom of their stroke emptying that cylinder and filling the next one. And with the last cylinder operating the pump refills the inital stage. This would allow it to be a closed loop system where leverage allows for the force of one piston to be amplified to operate the water pump.

                                                                           Jim

edited to add;
  >>  But as water is basically nearly incompressible,
why isn't it just measured as "Pounds" of pressure,
like inches of mercury or hg for a vacuum as example ?
<<

  As you mentioned, in math, values are often squared. it seems to be a universal thing.
With pressure, the surface area may not be increasing in size. If it did exponentially, then
it would be as the DPI you mentioned. But with a static head, every 33 feet the pressure per square inch doubles.

edited to add; compuTutor, you brought up a good point I almost missed. If a basic pump were square, then it's volume would quadruple if it's dimension went from 2 x 2 to 4 x 4.
This would mean that 4 times the water could be pumped per stroke without increasing the length of the stroke. I think sometimes on these idea's, it is best to start with something basic so everyone can follow. Then when it is more familiar, the advancing the concept little by little would make it easier to understand what principles are being used and how or why.

                                                                                     Johnny874

[johnny874]

  @All,
I modified accessAlex's concept going with the theme of this thread.
I am providing numbers to show how self pumping / flowing water can work. Where Alex had a pipe, think half pipe (snow boarding term, sorry bout that) .
I think everyone should get it and if all else fails, maybe it would make for an interesting aquarium for marketability.
                                                 
                                                                                                                                      Johnny874

edited to add; H= height, SAE is 18, metric is 45.75, hope using both values doesn't confuse everyone to much but you know, my dad was metric and I'm SAE.