Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[ltseung888]

The obtaining of Negative Power.


The Average Input Power Points in magic.xls was obtained with the connection unchanged.  The readings were taken at one minute intervals.  The voltage waveform always stayed positive.  However, the current waveform started getting negative.  That gave rise to the negative power results.


The circuit was not changed.  If we accepted the positive results, we should also accept the negative results.  Thus the TK explanations of "possible errors" would not apply.


That led to the inevitable conclusion - the circuit turned into a feedback circuit.  The lead-out energy gave more energy back to the source.  If the source could accept such energy, the device might self-run. 


With the two oscilloscopes and the set up in the demo Center, I can get my team to do many more runs with different loads, different toroids, different transistors etc.  All these will be documented and make available to the top Universities for verification. (Or whoever wants to do the double or triple checks.)


The Divine Wine is being poured out.  Amen.

[ltseung888]

@TK,


For the experiment on sound resonance leading out kinetic energy of air molecules, please read:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg24854#msg24854


Divine Revelation 1 start at A28.  The photos of the experiment are in there.


For the arrow diagram, please review the textbooks on kinetic theory of gases.  An imaginary cube contains many bouncing balls with different velocities.  They collide with each other and with the walls of the container.  To simplify the conceptual picture, we can let all such bouncing balls have same velocity and align in perfect +X, -X, +Y, -Y, +Z and -Z directions.


You can google "kinetic theory of Gases" if you no longer keep the textbooks.


Keep your excellent comments coming.   I may not agree but they help to prepare me for the inevitable examinations.

[TinselKoala]

Lawrence.... To use the method I outlined above you must measure the capacitor voltage BEFORE you hook it to the circuit, and then AFTER you unhook it at the end of the run. In addition you do not show any capacitor on your circuit diagram, nor do you indicate the type and number and connection of your multiple LEDs.

Nevertheless, I DO have _almost_ your experiment in front of me. I only have 3 Farads of capacitance though... I cannot afford to buy more, nobody is funding me with a Platinum Visa card. But I have the complete JT 2n2222 circuit with the toroid and 38 LEDs for the load, and the current viewing resistors in place, etc. And my results do not agree with yours.

If you take a 1.5 volt battery and hook it to a 10 F capacitor for some seconds, the capacitor should come up to nearly the voltage of the battery. That will represent the energy in the capacitor. When you then hook that cap to your running circuit, the voltage will be drawn down.... but I am surprised that it is by that much. I confess that I do not understand your voltage readings, because they do not correspond to mine when I use a 3 F , 5.5 V capacitor (all that I have available).  When I hook the fully discharged cap to the 1.3 volt NiMH battery through a 1 ohm CVR, it takes about 30 seconds for the cap to come up to just under the battery's no-load voltage. The bank of 38 LEDs lights up as the voltage rises past about 0.65 volts and by the time the cap is fully charged to the battery voltage the LEDs are glowing nicely. I don't think a 2n2222 JT will even start oscillating at 0.37 volts.  At the time of the disconnect of the battery, The Cap Has The Same Voltage As The Battery, nearly. And when I remove the battery, it takes about two minutes to drop down to the JT shutoff voltage of about 0.45 volts. Since you have over three times the capacitance it should take your system about 3 times as long to run down. But....my system _never_ gets down to 0.37 volts! It stops dropping when the JT oscillations stop, at about 0.45 volts with this transistor and coil. (EDIT: or rather, the voltage drops very slowly once the LEDs are too dim to see; after ten minutes or so my caps have drained down to that 0.37-0.38 V level almost exactly and remain there for a long time... but that might just be leaky caps, one of mine is nearly ten years old.)

So I don't understand your voltage graph at all, it does not correspond to what I get, and the fact that you have a 10F cap instead of my 3 is not the reason. I have the same circuit as you, the same transistor, the same base resistor, the same LED load and the same toroid with the same number of turns (I think).  In fact your graph looks more like a _current_ graph obtained by monitoring the voltage drop across a resistor. Are you sure you don't have your files mixed up?

Please explain exactly how long you leave the battery hooked to the capacitor to charge it, and also tell me how your 38 LEDs are wired. Are they all in parallel, or what? Mine are in two rows of 19 in parallel, with these rows in series.

[TinselKoala]

You are putting up your... statements.... faster than I can deal with them.
There is nothing in the kinetic theory of gases (I do keep the textbooks by the way) that allows for or predicts what you are claiming for "leading out" the energy of air molecules in the way that you describe. Your experiment does not support your contention, either. But let us please not change the subject.

There is something wrong with your measurements, as your recent voltage graph and my own experiments, just now happening, show.

Do you have a video camera? Can you take a short video of your scope, making that trace under the conditions you describe, including all the scope settings? Or just please do the measurement again, but before you hook up the battery measure its voltage. Then tell me exactly how long it was hooked to the 10F capacitor and measure the voltage on the capacitor WITH A DMM. You can leave the DMM hooked to the cap while your circuit is running, to monitor the voltage as it drops. This will not interfere with the circuit if your DMM is a good one with high input impedance, as all modern ones are. I am sorry to be so picky but I really want to see some confirmation of that voltage trace under the conditions you gathered it.

[ltseung888]

@TK,

We can make this very simple.  Tell me what kind of DSOs you have and how many.  I shall get one of the oscilloscope-test-ready boards for you.  Before I ship it, I shall have my team double and triple check it just like the ones for the top universities.  The data will be posted on the Internet.

All you need to do is to hook up the connections as indicated and show the analysis from your DSO.  I can justify it as a rehearsal before the sending of such boards to the Universities.

In resonance experiments, one different component may give you very different results.  Let us not waste time and energy.