Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[ltseung888]

Although the photo is for board #71 and the scope shots are for board #80, yes Lawrence you need to respond to the question of how the probe was connected for board #80's input current measurement, because the probe configuration shown in #71 is not in accordance with your diagram.

@poynt99 and TK

Thank you for spending so much energy and time on this thread.  I shall try to do a full "thinking" review on why I started with Vrms and then the "unconventional incorrect" probe setting later.

Meanwhile, I redid the Board 80 Input measurements with the correct probe setting.  I also set the CH2 invert to "ON" and then to "OFF" and captured the CSV files.  Apparently the CSV values were the same with either setting.  The invert setting affected the display but not the captured values. The CSV file results in both cases showed that the Average Input Power was negative.  Please confirm with Board 33 and Tk's own boards.

May the Almighty grant us wisdom and revelation so that we can benefit the World together.

[TinselKoala]

OK, thanks Lawrence for doing the cable test. But I don't see any batteries in the setup.... are you running on an external, bench power supply?

Because of the discrepancy between that photo I linked above and your circuit diagram, it's important that we confirm that your new measurements are taken with the probes positioned correctly (as in the schematic, not the photo), that the scope's probe compensation and probe attenuation are properly set, that the channel input couplings are properly set to DC, that the math correction that .99 has mentioned is done, and that the Channel Invert function is properly used, or not used, for the input current measurement channel as appropriate _and documented_.

Referring to your Manual, part 2.6.1.5, I see where the channel invert function is set, but not how it is indicated on the live scope screen during trace acquisition. Many scopes have an indicator that shows channel inversion. Is there one on the Atten scope? I can't see it if there is. If there isn't one on the live acquisition screen it is possible that a channel is inadvertently set to invert, or not invert, incorrectly and you might not notice it unless you took the trouble to check and document the invert/non invert setting along with each measurement session. It would not be the first time in history that a claimed overunity result was tracked down to an improperly inverted scope signal.

Could you do another test for me, please? With your equipment turned OFF and not hooked to any board in any way, but plugged into the mains as your test session requires... please take your handheld DMM and check for continuity between all of your equipment grounds. Look for continuity especially from your Power Supply's Negative output lead, to your scope probe "grounds" and the scope chassis. Be sure your equipment is OFF but plugged into the mains as normal when you do this check.

[ltseung888]

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I sent a couple of boards and some information to UN some weeks ago.  Is the above a legit response??? 

[TinselKoala]

Ah, I just saw your post about the CSV file not changing in response to the channel invert setting. That seems strange to me. Is there some way we can confirm this?  Reviewing Table 2-47 and the associated text in the manual, I see nothing that is very helpful on this question.

But OK.... if the CSV storage is the raw, non-inverted data regardless of how the invert display button is set, then a negative value calculated here, with your probes positioned as in the schematic and apparently as in your latest picture above, indicates conventional +positive+ current flow in the normal direction, just as .99 has been telling you. See my rough sketch a few posts ago to understand which side of the current viewing resistor has the higher voltage in each case. The "negative" voltage reading comes from the fact that the probe TIP, at the negative pole of the battery, must be at a LOWER voltage than the ground clip on the circuit side of the current viewing resistor, when the current is flowing normally. So if the voltage at the ground clip is assigned "zero", then the probe tip will be negative.

[TinselKoala]

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Seems legit???











NOT.