Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[TinselKoala]

Lawrence,

I did not say you had to use a NEW analog scope. There is a China version of ebay; so surely you could buy a used one there for $100 or less.

http://www.ebay.cn/

Also, you do not have to use an analog oscilloscope to verify your findings. Borrow anyone's scope, as long as it is NOT an ATTEN brand, nor one made by the same manufacturer.

What about Mr. Zhou? Does he not have several different brands of scope for sale? Could you ask him to verify the current trace with a different model?

Based on what we've seen in this thread, I am skeptical about Lawrence's ability to interpret a graphical display at all. When we were discussing probe compensation, for example, he did not seem to realize what the traces from the calibrator were showing, or why they were incorrect.

I don't want to seem insulting, but Lawrence has his hands full with this most simple DSO. I shudder to think of the problems that might arise when he starts trying to use a good analog scope with features like delayed triggering, but with no onscreen display of numerical values and no way to dump data to a spreadsheet for mashup.

(And he STILL hasn't answered the questions about the one probe/channel combo that was indicating 15 volts or more when it should have indicated 3 1/2 or so. Is this because he simply cannot interpret the graphical display, so he doesn't understand that there is an issue there?)

[poynt99]

I'm trying to encourage Lawrence to use any other oscilloscope, including any analog scope he may come across. The goal being of course to verify that current trace. Most 20MHz scopes I have come across are fairly basic in their operation, and shouldn't be too difficult to manage. If there are problems, we can help.

[TinselKoala]

Here's this, though. For under 600 USD (4500 HKD) you can get a high-quality 60 MHz digital oscilloscope, along with the spectrum analyzer/measurement module, with serial port for data output to computer.

http://hongkong.craigslist.hk/ele/3702060042.html

I would be more than proud to have an instrument setup like this in my laboratory. I would be ecstatic.


Awww.... it's got a monochrome screen though.

[TinselKoala]

I'm trying to encourage Lawrence to use any other oscilloscope, including any analog scope he may come across. The goal being of course to verify that current trace. Most 20MHz scopes I have come across are fairly basic in their operation, and shouldn't be too difficult to manage. If there are problems, we can help.

I agree, of course.... I have been trying to get him to use other forms of measurement for some time now, even finding the contact information for a local HongKong test equipment rental company for him. I've lost a lot of faith in the last few days though, since he's not willing to do the simple tests that PW, you and I have asked for using his present gear. And especially since the real progress that has occurred has been all in this thread, identifying his errors and the scope's inaccuracies, yet the benefits from this work are not coming to us... rather, his church seems to want to use its member donations to buy still more fancy equipment, which will only tell him the same things that we have been telling him for weeks. Yes, I resent it somewhat when someone else benefits financially from my freely donated efforts, and they don't even acknowledge that fact.

[ltseung888]

I agree, of course.... I have been trying to get him to use other forms of measurement for some time now, even finding the contact information for a local HongKong test equipment rental company for him. I've lost a lot of faith in the last few days though, since he's not willing to do the simple tests that PW, you and I have asked for using his present gear. And especially since the real progress that has occurred has been all in this thread, identifying his errors and the scope's inaccuracies, yet the benefits from this work are not coming to us... rather, his church seems to want to use its member donations to buy still more fancy equipment, which will only tell him the same things that we have been telling him for weeks. Yes, I resent it somewhat when someone else benefits financially from my freely donated efforts, and they don't even acknowledge that fact.

I hereby acknowledge the contribution of TK, PW, Poynt99 and others to bring out the scientific truth in this thread.

The simple JT is unlikely to show OU.  But their efforts have help to identify a procedure and the use of a high end DSO to get correct Input and Output Power measurement.  This will benefit all researchers.

I shall let Mr. Zhou and the Atten Technical Support to work on the issues related to the Atten and they can read this thread.  l shall take Poynt99's advice and use another Brand of DSO being sold by Mr. Zhou.  (I may even get the 4-CH tektronics in a few weeks and the properly trained people in Hong Kong to help.)

I should have started these postings three years ago when I first got the Atten.  I never mastered all its functions (just like I never mastered those on my mobile phone).  The students read the instruction manual and helped to set it up.  Poynt99 may still remember that I used Voltage Vrms and Current Vrms to get the Tseung Comparison index for my different badly soldered prototypes.....

Deliberately exposing one's limitations for all to see and learn has its benefits.