Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[Void]

Does your scope have a USB that allows the capture/save of the CSV file?  If so, that CSV file should contain the Instantaneous Voltage and Current at the many sample points.

Yes, I think my scope is at least somewhat similar to your scope. I just need to experiment with it to see if I
can get everything to work OK. I may have to wait until the weekend to find time to try it though.

[Void]

I am aware of my poor DSO skills.  That is why I sow seeds and let others do the "proper job".  One good happening is the poynt99 scope shots and the subsequent interest in getting the 4-CH Tektronics in Hong Kong.  I shall NOT be the owner but may have access to it with experts helping me.  So just consider my Atten Scope shots in the past, present and future as trash if you like.  For me, the lighting of the LED for 3 days with a rechargeable AA battery reading 0.352V and the spike waveforms is worth further research (especially by others with the resources and skills).

Hi Lawrence. I think you are doing fine, but just make sure your trigger level setting is always set below the lowest peaks of the waveform you are triggering on. The other issue to watch out for is that the smaller the current waveform amplitude gets (the more the current waveform amplitude gets closer to the noise level amplitude), the more the error in your current measurements will increase. In general once your current or voltage waveform amplitudes get close to the noise level (low mV amplitude) then you can't really rely on those measurements as being really accurate. Any tests you can do that keep the current and voltage waveforms a fair bit larger than the noise level will reduce error in your measurements.

Another thing that you can do is to have everything connected in your circuit including your scope probes, except have one of the input voltage power leads disconnected, and then take a scope screen shot of the noise level that your circuit and scope leads are picking up as a sort of a base line measurement. Take note of the Max + and - voltage readings on the noise. This will give you an idea of how much error noise can be contributing to your measurements. For example, if the noise maximum at noise peaks is +/- 5mV, and your waveform being measured is lets say 10 mV max, you could have very large errors in your measurements of this waveform.  Your signal to noise ratio is too low to make reasonably accurate measurements. You may already be aware of this, but just pointing it out anyway as no doubt if you present your circuit and experimental data to a university for review, they may quickly dismiss your measurements if some of the measurements are made with the waveform being too close to the noise level. Showing a scope screen shot of the noise level with all the probes and circuit components connected, except for one of the battery or capacitor power leads, establishes an approximate baseline for the noise level to help determine what the level of error in your measurements due to noise might be. Again, just another idea.

By the way, measuring very low signal levels is where the differential oscilloscope probe becomes very useful. This type of scope probe measures only the difference in signal voltage between its two leads, and any electrical noise that is picked  up and which is common to both of the leads on the differential probe gets ignored. For any tests that have to be done at very low waveform amplitudes, you may have to consider using differential probes if you want to have more reliable measurements. I am not sure if they are expensive or not, but if you use Tektronix probes then they are probably not cheap.

[ltseung888]

Hi Lawrence. I think you are doing fine, but just make sure your trigger level setting is always set below the lowest peaks of the waveform you are triggering on. The other issue to watch out for is that the smaller the current waveform amplitude gets (the more the current waveform amplitude gets closer to the noise level amplitude), the more the error in your current measurements will increase. In general once your current or voltage waveform amplitudes get close to the noise level (low mV amplitude) then you can't really rely on those measurements as being really accurate. Any tests you can do that keep the current and voltage waveforms a fair bit larger than the noise level will reduce error in your measurements.

Another thing that you can do is to have everything connected in your circuit including your scope probes, except have one of the input voltage power leads disconnected, and then take a scope screen shot of the noise level that your circuit and scope leads are picking up as a sort of a base line measurement. Take note of the Max + and - voltage readings on the noise. This will give you an idea of how much error noise can be contributing to your measurements. For example, if the noise maximum at noise peaks is +/- 5mV, and your waveform being measured is lets say 10 mV max, you could have very large errors in your measurements of this waveform.  Your signal to noise ratio is too low to make reasonably accurate measurements. You may already be aware of this, but just pointing it out anyway as no doubt if you present your circuit and experimental data to a university for review, they may quickly dismiss your measurements if some of the measurements are made with the waveform being too close to the noise level. Showing a scope screen shot of the noise level with all the probes and circuit components connected, except for one of the battery or capacitor power leads, establishes an approximate baseline for the noise level to help determine what the level of error in your measurements due to noise might be. Again, just another idea.

By the way, measuring very low signal levels is where the differential oscilloscope probe becomes very useful. This type of scope probe measures only the difference in signal voltage between its two leads, and any electrical noise that is picked  up and which is common to both of the leads on the differential probe gets ignored. For any tests that have to be done at very low waveform amplitudes, you may have to consider using differential probes if you want to have more reliable measurements. I am not sure if they are expensive or not, but if you use Tektronix probes then they are probably not cheap.

I now know why that the Lord chose me to sow the seeds.  I had two strokes, poor eyesight and hearing, shaky hands, cannot master the options on the mobile phone and unskilled at the DSO.  With someone more talents, there will be the temptation to "claim credit as ones work".  Once that temptation comes, one would hide the findings and try to develop products for one's benefit.

I do not mind showing the "bad and poor" results to any group.  The moment they look at the old man with slow reactions and faulty presentations, they know that they have to do the actual work themselves.  Some groups will automatically dismiss the entire lead-out energy concept.  But there are groups willing to give it a try.  Seed falls on fertile soil.

Thank you for all the good suggestions.  I am sure the groups getting the 4-CH Tektronics in Hong Kong will continue to monitor this thread and hopefully will develop products to benefit the World.

I am attaching the results for Board 119 with relatively high Input Voltage of 1.1V for your reference.

[ltseung888]

@Void,

With the previous post diagrams and analysis, one can see that the use Vrms for analysis could be totally wrong.  For example, the COP calculated from
Output (Ch1 Vrms * Ch2 Vrms)/ Input (Ch1 Vrms *Ch2 Vrms) = 1.27.

The COP from EXCEL gives COP = -19.54.  The negative sign came from Input.

*** If you have a DC Power Supply, lower the Input Voltage to around 0.4V and see if you can observe the crossing of the 0 ref line and/or the spikes on both sides of the 0 ref line for Input Current.  If you do not have a DC Power Supply, find and drain a rechargeable AA battery to around that voltage and observe the waveform.

[ltseung888]

Board 124 can no longer maintain continued lighting of LED.

LED was lighted only when the Battery was connected.