Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[TinselKoala]

aha @tinselkoala.calorometry yes but, like rossi calorometry,or any calorometry its vulnerable to skeptic attack due to heat losses,especialy wen we are dealing with a small COPs or whatevers left over to measure after circuitry losses.i propose a different and much more efficient way to measure with 80% efficiency and skep-proof,the electrochemical way,electrolysis of h2o,many electrolysis cells in series to swallow up the massive back-emf voltage,and subsequent evaluation of total volume oxygen produced versus consumed in the single(1.5v) NiMH cell that powers the circuit.if the ratio is larger then bang,nobody can argue results.wat u think?

I think it's an interesting idea, but....
Can you show any outside references, like in peer-reviewed literature, that shows your electrolysis power measurement method being used and compared to some other power measurement method for concurrent validity?
I can do so if necessary, for the Joule heating and bolometric and other conventional power measurement systems. If you can show an electrolysis power measuring system that agrees with other methods that I know and trust, and is easy to perform, I'd be happy to add it to my arsenal of measurement procedures. I'm not interested in starting an experimental program to examine and develop your idea, though.

[TinselKoala]

p.s. In my above example of verifying over or underunity effects the nimh cell has to be totaly drained first then charged up with a known amount of coulombs of charge as a reference thus if you charge up with 1000 coulombs and receive 15000 coulombs worth of O2 bangbaddabing,nobody can argue overunity.the goal is to as efficently as possible store ALL of the bak-emf power and showcase it.

I'd love to see you put 1000 Coulombs of charge into a NiMH battery and get 15000 Coulombs worth of O2 (whatever that means) back out of it. Badabing.

[profitis]

@void im refering to any attempt to demonstrate more power from a bakspike than an inspike on any suitably designed inductor,not necesarily the joule thief but if you say,like tinselkoala says, that ther are scopes that can accurately determine the entire power magnitude of each spike then thats interesting.i dont know if it would be interesting to the skeps tho who demand 3dimensional evidence,eg self-looped systems but my point is that to power and recharge a single system at same time incurs dramatic losses,eg.an l.e.d. for example is only about ten percent efficient,the rest is unnecesarily wasted heat inside the l.e.d pn junction.thus my suggestion for 2 seperate stages 1)total discharge of power source and 2)recapture of all and above what was released at power source.the circuit must be designed solely for this optimum 'upstep'of totality of power at maximum posible efficiency. You have to throw out all l.e.d,s,all resistances,anything that would dissipate power between source and capture.

[profitis]

@tinselkoala,a skep can argue a scope down on almost any theory,eg,tampering,leakage from the power source OF the scope etc..the public dont even know what a scope is or how it works.you can use a series of totaly flat seperate(1.5v)rechargable batteries instead of electrolysis units then afterwards line them up into parallel,then measure the coulombs/volts totality.every single electron from your bakspike must deposit an atom of NiO2(nickel oxide) and an atom of H2(hydrogen) inside evry one of your series recipient cells,there is no way round this(faradays law),so if your bakspike is 100volts you must collect that power in about 50 series bats,allowing a nice 2volts to suitably recharge each dead(1.5v) bat.btw,what kind of voltages does one get on a average bakspike? 

[Void]

@void im refering to any attempt to demonstrate more power from a bakspike than an inspike on any suitably designed inductor,not necesarily the joule thief but if you say,like tinselkoala says, that ther are scopes that can accurately determine the entire power magnitude of each spike then thats interesting.i dont know if it would be interesting to the skeps tho who demand 3dimensional evidence,eg self-looped systems but my point is that to power and recharge a single system at same time incurs dramatic losses,eg.an l.e.d. for example is only about ten percent efficient,the rest is unnecesarily wasted heat inside the l.e.d pn junction.thus my suggestion for 2 seperate stages 1)total discharge of power source and 2)recapture of all and above what was released at power source.the circuit must be designed solely for this optimum 'upstep'of totality of power at maximum posible efficiency. You have to throw out all l.e.d,s,all resistances,anything that would dissipate power between source and capture.

Hi profitis. When I was saying you can use a scope, I meant specifically with a joule thief circuit with a LED load, as this thread is about making power measurements on joule thief circuits. As for LEDs not being very efficient, I don't believe that is really a factor as what we are concerned with regarding power dissipation in the LED is the voltage across the LED and the current through the LED at any instant in time. Whether that power is dissipated as heat or light makes no difference from a power consumption point of view.

Maybe things don't have to be too overly complicated to do what you want to do, however.
For other types of circuit setups, you could use a large valued capacitor of a known (accurately measured) capacitance value as a input power source, and use the back spikes from your inductor to charge another capacitor with known capacitance value (again, accurately measured) as a load, but there are drawbacks to this. It is not so easy to make accurate measurements on very large values of capacitance, and you would need high quality capacitors that have a minimal amount of leakage resistance. Also, you would need to use a very high speed diode to capture the back spikes to the load capacitor, and there is going to be power consumption in this diode. However, if there really is any significant amount of excess energy being delivered to the load capacitor, the power losses in the output rectifier diode may not be overly significant. It would depend on your exact setup however.

If you use the back spikes to charge a load battery from an input battery while at the same time powering some constant load, then you could maybe just keep swapping the batteries every so often and see if you can get the circuit to power the constant load much longer than you could with just using the two batteries not using the back spike charging and battery swapping method. If you can power the load at some given amount of power much longer with the battery swapping and back spike charging method than what you can get with just the two batteries alone, then that might be a fairly easy way to indicate that you are getting excess energy produced beyond what the batteries themselves have stored in them. This may actually prove a bit tricky however, as you would need some way to make sure the batteries in the comparison tests are charged to very close to the same amount of charge at the start of the tests, and I am not sure if there is any reliable way to determine that.