HHO in a combustion engine. Scientific experiment setup

[Unityingenieur]

Hello guys.
First of all, very nice Community. The first community were there are people talking about facts an experients rather then shit chat.

I am fairly new to this topic.
So fare I experimented with Brown Gas in the field of production.

I experimented with titanium and Iron cells as well as pwm manipulation of the electrolysis.

However, here is were I want to stop experimenting at home and do some research at university. I might get a Testbench for some days to write my Thesis on this.

So far I know from some resources that Brown's gas implodes if ignited. But this brings me to my first question:

1. How can it be that some people claim that they are running an ICE with brown's gas. That just would not be possible, concerning the way an ICE works.
Is there a change in behaviour if it is mixed with Gasoline/Diesel?
Are there any papers(I mean scientific, which I can show my Prof) on that?

2. What do you say about this webside
http://brownsgas.com/browns-gas-oxyhydrogen-hho-gas/browns-gas/chris-eckman.html
He claims 1500J/l as the caloric value of Brown's gas.
Simple H2 O2 Mixture gives, I think close to 7500 J/l

3. In the above emntioned paper. He talks about the addition of energy by switching electrons to higher orbitals. (What would explain the volume increase)
But is that energy released during implosion? But the released energy would heat up the gas and expand it.

4. If you guys talk about HHO, do you mean H2 and O2 or Brown's gas H1 O1 and H20 with electrons on higher orbitals?
I have many more. But I want to check If I make a complete fool of myself.

By the way I am from Europe so be gently about my spelling.

Grettings Petro

[TinselKoala]

Hi Petro
Don't worry about your spelling... your English is better than that of many Americans, that's for sure.

It is possible to run an ICE on "implosion" as well as explosion. It is a matter of ignition and valve timing.
Stroke 1: Intake: Intake valve open, exhaust valve closed, piston goes from Top Center TC to bottom center BC pulled by crankshaft, sucking HHO into cylinder.
Stroke 2: Power: Both valves closed, spark fires, piston is "sucked up" by implosion to TC providing power to crank.
Stroke 3: Idle: Both valves remain closed, piston is drawn down by crankshaft
Stroke 4: Exhaust: Piston pushed up by crankshaft, Exhaust valve opened at very top, residual water vapor ejected, valve closes, go to Stroke 1.

Some people inject hydrogen...or just water vapor.... into the combustion chambers of normally running, explosion driven ICEs. The benefits of water injection are well known.

Just what the electrolysis gas is composed of depends on whom you ask. A consideration of molar volumes delivered might be able to answer the question, since one mole of any gas occupies the same volume at STP whether it is diatomic or monoatomic or whatever. If one mole of water is electrolysed, you get one mole of H2 gas and one half-mole of O2 gas, right? Or do you get two  moles of H gas and one mole of O gas? Should be easy to measure.

What is Brown's Gas? Could it be the same, or nearly the same, as what used to be called "water gas"?  Or is it just hydrogen, or just H2 + O2? I dunno, but I have my guesses.

[Unityingenieur]

Thank you thats kind, but scarry. (The thing about my spelling)
And thanks for your reply.

Well I always thought that Brown gas is HHO:
A half monoatomic half diatomic half Water Isomere (1/3+1/3....you get my idea), electrolyted out of Water with the use of a PWM Generator.
This gas has a higher caloric value then regular H2+O2 and a bigger volume.

I alwayss get confused because sometimes people are talking about HHO and say that it has a volume change of 1800 but Brown gas has 1886
The caloric values I get are different to.

And if HHO implodes how does he do this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I90IcfqS9MU&feature=related
He claims the engine is first running on Gas then on HHO. So he cannot mean Brown's gas, he means H2+02 right?

Thanks in advance, I hope some more people are reading this.
I am courious how you guys would start a scientific experiment row.

Petro

[Fester]

Most likely the best way to start is to get an ICE engine that turns. remove the intake and remove the cam and timing gears/ belts. lubricate the crankcase side of the cylinder before doing a test fire. Would most likely remove the valves( or keep them open) for the other cylinders to not create vacuums. Manually open the intake valve with the HHO outlet tube attached. Manually rotate the cylinder to Bottom dead center. Close intake valve. If the engine has many miles there should be no need to mark BTC in the cylinder as the ring may have already left a wear grove. If not, need to establish a point of reference for bottom dead center. Now ignite the chamber using the spark plug. Watch the crank shaft as it fires. Making a paint dot of the crank or on a pulley attached. The observation to be looking for is how much the implosion moves the piston. You can do this by measuring the cylinder wall with feeler gauges, or observing the degrees of rotation from the flywheel. Degrees of rotation should tell you how much of the "known stroke" is performed. My only doubts about an implosion ICE would be the vacuum created creating large amounts of " blow by"  through the rings. If a single cylinder implosion cannot pull the piston to at a minimun top dead center, it will never produce enough motion to push exhaust out or draw other cylinder fuel in. But at the same time with the other cylinders having the valves open, we are in essence pumping air through them as well.

Just my 2c.

[Unityingenieur]

Ok Thanks but I new that already.

Anyway I did some calculations, using the implosing energy is not enough, yout of a 1l engine you could only get 26kW of power at 2000 rpm.
No way you could create 2000l/min of HHO with that amound of Power.

We have to burn it with air.

Thanks anyway.

Petro