Probality of God

[Qwert]

Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!

And then he saw THE DNA in what he created and saw evolution. and God said "Oh Shit" and disappeared in a puff of logic.

_{edit: changed ending}

[CuriousChris]

Faithers,

Why do you regard it a virtue to be obedient?

Only a fool is obedient.

snip

Be curious!  Ask questions!  Question everything!

LIVE!

Gwandau

+1

As a parent the hardest thing to do is to teach your children to question you and others. It makes parenting very hard.

But I am proud of the job my wife and I have done. Even though it was difficult to deal with the backchat, the stubbornness. We know our children can go into the world and not be abused by those who would take advantage of them.

They wont be fooled by the lies of the deceitful. They wont fall for dishonest religions. And if they do find a religion. we will know its the best choice for them.

We taught them both sides of the coin. Unlike my brother we showed them religion and science we did not censor them.

[Bruce_TPU]

Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!

And then he saw THE DNA in what he created and saw evolution. and God said "Oh Shit" and disappeared in a puff of logic.

_{edit: changed ending}

Funny stuff.  Darwin, on his death bed repented of the lie of evolution, and gave his life to Christ.  I guess we will just have to wait and see..... don't worry, we are in the last of the last days,  You won't have to long to wait.  The worst parts of the Bible will soon be upon the planet.  And when Christ raptures his people from this earth, you will be one of the mindless ones, flapping your jaws and pointing at the UFO's.  LOL  Now THAT is funny!  I can see and hear it now...!   

[gravityblock]

This statement is meaningless as far as I can tell
Observing a photon does not destroy the photon. If you were to believe that then simply observing the universe would cause it to explode

Unless you are trying to describe something different and I have misunderstood you.

Perhaps you are trying to talk about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

This in essence means you cannot measure both position and speed at the same time, by measuring one you render the other unmeasurable. Nothing is destroyed (assuming your use of destroyed means converted to heat energy)

I have no idea what you are talking about here? Are you saying if a god exists therefore the universe can't? Are you trying to argue god doesn't know everything?

If the latter is the case then you are arguing God restrains himself by the rules of the universe (the uncertainty principle). Or god IS RESTRAINED by the rules of the universe.

In the former God is the creator, in the latter God is the created. Which is it to be?

With respect to the former in the last sentence. The following is one of the reasons why I believe the bible is completely fictitious.

Now try and keep up here because it means you need to suspend "faith without critical thought".  Sorry Bruce that precludes you. Its just not in your DNA.

The bible is full of miracles. To create a miracle God must alter physical reality to perform the miracle. IT MUST break the laws of physics Now if we accept God created the universe then he also created the laws of physics. So to create a miracle he MUST BREAK HIS OWN LAWS. Would a perfect God do that?

There is an alternate scenario that does not require the breaking of the laws of physics to create apparent miracles. In this scenario which fits an omnipotent God perfectly. God created the universe at some distant point in the past. We will call it the big bang, as that is the most promising theory at this point (note to faithers, theory does not mean fact, at least science if nothing else is honest).

When God initiated the big bang he created the rules of the universe with such amazing perfection that when Moses led 2 Million people out of Egypt a distant volcano erupted, creating a pillar of fire and smoke to guide Moses to mount Sinai. Thus no physical laws are broken and therefore God does not break his own rules. Instead he shows his own perfection for those willing to look for it.

Wonderful isn't it that alternative. God creates miracles by setting the process into motion 13 Billion earth years ago. No laws of physics broken. Miracles performed, the Bible fulfilled.

Oh Except there is a problem. Dang nab it nasty human logic getting in the way!

If God started the universe and planned everything in advance. He knew in advance everything that was going to happen. every possible permutation and he created circumstances to alter those permutations such that his plans were fulfilled.

In Other words he created pre destiny. and in a predestined universe there is no room for free will.

The Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that it is not possible to measure location and momentum at the same time. If the momentum is distributed throughout the entire volume, if one measures the entire momentum, the whole volume must be considered. Since the volume spreads all over creation, it is impossible to say that it is located at a point. It seems that the meaning of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle can be reinterpreted to support the present conclusion of the nature of the photon. If it has aperture and length, the momentum is not located at a single point. If a single point is assumed for the structure, no momentum can be measured. It seems that the significance of the uncertainty principle has been highly overrated. It simply says that the photon has volume. Calculation shows that the energy and thus the mass is distributed uniformly throughout the structure. 

However, when the whole volume of it's structure is considered, then both location and momentum can be measured at the same time, thus the uncertainty principal is false based on a wrong assumption.  This means God isn't restrained by the rules of the universe and God doesn't restrain himself by the rules of the universe.  God doesn't need to create miracles by setting the process into motion 13 Billion earth years ago.  Here's a short story to illustrate this point.  "There was a woman whose car stalled on the train tracks and a man appeared to this woman and told her there was a train coming through in a few minutes and she needed to get off the tracks immediately.  She agreed, and the man pushed her car off the tracks.  The woman got out of her car to give thank the man, but there was no sign of him anywhere."  This was a miracle, because God sent an angel in the appearance of a man to help this woman.  (Hebrews 13:2) "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."  Predestination is a false teaching by the adversary to turn mankind away from God.

The adversary has charged God before all of the Heavenly Host, that:

1.)  Mankind can successfully govern themselves without God's help.
2.)  He can turn all men away from God.

By the adversary trying to turn all men away from God, then he proves mankind can't successfully govern themselves without God's help.  Also, the adversary has failed in turning all men away from God.  Throughout the history of mankind, there has been at least one person in all generations who have remained faithful to God.

Gravock

[Gwandau]

You are obedient to the lusts of you flesh, the lusts of the eye and the pride of life.

If I am hungry and I have food, I will eat and enjoy it, and if beauty meets my eye, may it be the beauty of unspoiled nature or a beautiful woman, I will enjoy it, and if I rejoice in being a human being on earth, I enjoy it.

There is nothing wrong in enjoying what is given you to enjoy. There is no slavery in this, just plain joyfulness in being alive.

You are a slave to your own wisdom and logic, thinking that in yourself you will find the answer.

An open mind cannot be enslaved, and I am deliberately not looking for any answer.
As far as I am concerned LIFE IS NOT A PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED BUT A MYSTERY TO BE LIVED. 

You are a slave to your own wisdom and logic

Better to be a slave to you own wisdom and logic than a slave to someone elses.

I would expect you to relate to Lucifer, for the bible says that he is your father.

Why do you christian fundamentalists always talk about a father, why so sure your god is not female? This genus talk makes christanity even more stupid. Do your father in heaven have a c-ck? Or is his crotch empty? Like an eunuch? But again, how could he then be omni potent as you claim?

Do your god allow jokes about him, or is he a dour old boy, lacking sense of humor?

If there is no God, then there is no responibility.  There is no moral compass.  One can do as they please, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Absolutely wrong, and I am a living proof to this, since I have great empathy for those who suffers, and do what little I can do to help. The difference between you and me is that I do not need any crutches to walk that road. If you have self respect you respect others, it's not any more complicated than that. No need for moral guidance from any supressors.

I bow not only my head but also my knees.  For the Lord has pulled me out of the miry clay and set my feet upon a rock!  He has put a new song in my mouth, even praised unto my God!

Look around you. Life is a dynamic and ever changing phenomenon. The only thing that stays the same is the saying : This too will pass. Your rock is illusory, like the drug for the addict, afraid of reality. And the price is just as high, if not even higher.

I do indeed stand straight and am open minded TO THE TRUTH! 

That is a contradiction right there. To be open minded is the very opposition to your rigid preconception. To be open minded is to stay detached, no matter if it is of esoteric nature or exoteric.

If I know something to be a lie, why should I then be open minded to it?

You really don't understand the definition of an open mind, do you.  To be open minded means being a mere observer, saying Is that so? to whatever attempt to persuade you that comes along your road.

The moment you lock yourself into a discriminative position of choice, you are no longer open minded. This is what the Buddha Mind is all about.

You are betting that the bible is a lie and that God is a liar.

No, I am betting that the bible is a book made by men.  Your god neither tells any thruth or lies, he is a mere character in the book made by men.

The Bible is full of all of mans answers.It is the owners manual for our life.

As I said before, your are caught in the ultimate prison, being both prisoner and warden in a prison built by yourself. You will never be free from this prison, since your experience of reality is so unrevokably twisted, where inside is out and outside is in.
The ultimate horror, and I cannot help you. Sorry.

Gwandau