Probality of God

[Magluvin]

 Had a quote and post made but it only came out as a quote and none of my text. Get back to it later. Busy with life.

Mags

[gravityblock]

Bad logic.

It just means it has 670 billion base pairs of DNA. nothing more nothing less. your comment is spin.

Talking about the deliberate propagation of falsehood you left out this part. I wonder why?

No, it's you who is putting the spin on things and using bad logic.  "It just means it has 670 billion base pairs of DNA. nothing more nothing less".  Well, let's see about that.  What is the explanation for such an inefficient use of biological resources. Each and every time that amoeba replicates that massive load of DNA is reproduced. One of the basic concepts of evolution is that natural selection soon selects against any waste of energy and other biological resources. Organs, limbs, and such that serve no purpose in any given environment are selected against and disappear.  An example of this is that all creatures that live in environments that are not exposed to light lose their eyes and skin pigmentation.  I didn't deliberately leave anything out.  There are many more examples than the amoeba, which your last argument can't cast any doubts on.  Such as, an onion has 12 times the DNA of humans, and the bufu bufu has more than 2 times the base pairs of DNA.  Less complex life forms with more DNA than humans doesn't support natural selection and evolution.

Gravock

[CuriousChris]

No, it's you who is putting the spin on things and using bad logic.  "It just means it has 670 billion base pairs of DNA. nothing more nothing less".  Well, let's see about that.  What is the explanation for such an inefficient use of biological resources. Each and every time that amoeba replicates that massive load of DNA is reproduced. One of the basic concepts of evolution is that natural selection soon selects against any waste of energy and other biological resources. Organs, limbs, and such that serve no purpose in any given environment are selected against and disappear.  An example of this is that all creatures that live in environments that are not exposed to light lose their eyes and skin pigmentation.  I didn't deliberately leave anything out.  There are many more examples than the amoeba, which your last argument can't cast any doubts on.  Such as, an onion has 12 times the DNA of humans, and the bufu bufu has more than 2 times the base pairs of DNA.  Less complex life forms with more DNA than humans doesn't support natural selection and evolution.

Gravock

That's not true at all. In fact it is a strong argument FOR evolution.

You have the wrong end of the stick altogether. If DNA was the result of intelligent design then perhaps it would be more efficient. Therefore an inefficient bloated bit of code points to a poor design, what one would expect if design was purely random.

But I happen to be of the thought that there is a lot more to evolution than we have discovered so far, I do not believe in random mutations. But I also think that such aberrations as this don't actually point to anything. Until we discover more we just can't know. Hence my comment. This is the honesty of science. If you don't know then admit it, don't make an extravagant claim.

To point at such things as the bufu bufu (what is that btw) and claiming its the result of God is to invoke the God of the gaps argument.


The last part of the argument about leaving things out was to point out that with a little effort on your behalf you may see there is two sides to every story.  Your blind acceptance of the first thing that you think supports your argument is just well blindness. You CHOSE by leaving out other pertinent facts to colour the possible reasons for the aberration like a simple miscount. Perhaps that extra 'load' actually performs some task. A task so subtle we do not see it. The junk DNA argument in the thread provided by qwert is one such discussion. Instead you chose to put forward the notion that because the number of bases is so huge it then means the entire study of evolution by tens of thousands of people is a lie and they are all complicit in that lie. and therefore by that masterstroke you prove God. Well I say penn and teller!

The wonderful thing about the internet is it only takes a few minutes to find alternate viewpoints. To remove misunderstandings. If you restrict yourself to going to sites that only support your viewpoint and only believing like minded people and then try to use that to sell your viewpoint you can only expect people to call you out and say your wrong.

What else can you possibly expect?

How did you prove the story about the lady on the train line? It may have happened like that, but like a lot of hero's sometimes they prefer to vanish. Her view of this person may have been obstructed by a corner or a tree. She may have just wanted some attention and made the whole damn thing up! Who knows I don't and I am very confident that neither do you.

Churches pay people to come and speak at assemblies. Sometimes it may just be by providing travel and accommodation, sometimes its by providing an actual income for their 'testimony'

Now you tell me, does that model reward honesty or extravagant claims? How many people can make a living out of saying "Nope nothing extraordinary happened"?


edit:

Billy Graham was once quoted as boasting I have never had to pay for a suit or accommodation. so his 1/4 mill per annum is just pocket money

[Gwandau]

Magzimus Leviticus,

Any "rules" from my side have one single purpose, and that is do UNDO any rule dependency whatsoever, and starting to trust life itself.

Everyone knows in their hearts what is wrongdoing to other people, you don't need any religion for that and neither any rules. You just have to be yourself. As I have emphasized so many times, respect yourself and you will respect all other sentient beings. No need for a god. 

Regarding parenting of kids, you either pretend not to understand or really don't comprehend what I have been trying to convey. I never said to abandon all rules, I am just trying to elucidate you about the difference between getting the kid to freely respect you and listen to you, compared to strictly following your bible rules and maybe be forced to execute your orders and rules with or without the kids consent, or even use your bible as a weapon in your parenting.

I have never been unfortunate to dishonor my son by executing any rules like that, since he spontaneously respect my arguments if he find them valuable. He has a very high integrity and a big heart, and I trust him and respect him just as much as I love him.

You dont know what "wake up' really is. I do.

There are so many levels of awakening, who are you to judge anyone but yourself? 

You certainly are fully aware that a spiritual awakening does not neccessarily have to involve a god. If not aware, you are incredibly ignorant and quite unaware of the many different authentic spiritual levels there are among humanity.

I you find yourself unable to agree to this, you are either very unexerienced in the spiritualistic domain or you are openly denying the depth and wisdom within the spiritualistic sfere of shamans and eastern mystics since thousands of years back, long before your jesus, who by the way was being trained in eastern buddhism and mysticism during his many years between the age of 18 and 30 in India and Kashimir.

Unfortunately this is edited away by the early gnostic edition, but there are scriptures found in a monastery in Kashimir telling about the jew Joshua who mastered much of the yoga knowledge and became enlightened here before returning to his politically torn country.

But he returned soon thereafter to the monastery, after giving up his spiritual and unfortunately political efforts at home, and lived there until his death many years later. A tombstone with his faint inscriptions are still at the monastery.

Most certainly his story is so hard edited in the bible that very little authenticity is left today.

Inner real sprituality is one thing, and the story in your bible an altogether different thing.

Unfortunately you are unaware that your god actually is you yourself, expressed by your own inner being.


Gwandau

[Qwert]

If evolution was not possible, there would very good things happen: it would be impossible to acquire any disease. Of course, curing a disease would be impossible also, but who would care about curing if there was no disease?

edit

Also, the process of learning is just a proof toward evolution.