Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

[bajac]

Hi,

I have one doubt: Why the ironless generator in the picture below is not an overunity generator if it does not have a iron core to create drag in the movement? I am afraid that there is something else in Figuera rotary coil patent #30376 than a simple ironless generator.

As I posted a couple of months ago I think that the foundation of this rotary coil generator is that this generator have TWO POLES AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO THE CONDUCTOR.  But this is just my idea. In this case I don´t have arguments to support this interpretation. The conductor is just one single wire between two poles, and it creates a coil which is perpendicular to the magnetic field.

As I understand that patent, the effect created by one pole is compensated by the effect from the other pole. Let´s say that current is induced in the wire (as in any other generator). This current moves along the wire creating a magnetic field around the wire. Let´s say that the North pole attracts the magnetic field around the wire. The South pole will then repel the magnetic field around the wire. As the South pole  and the North pole are at the same distance to wire both effects will cancel each other (attraction and repulsion) and there won´t be any drag to the movement of the rotary coil.

If you want to test this Figuera patent I would just suggest to try first with Figuera´s original design. Do not try to invent without even building the basic patent device. Do not try to be more clever than Figuera. I guess you will lose against Figuera 

I have devised a configuration of this patent where the net inducer magnetic field (B) which crosses the coil is null in the coil during a whole revolution of the generator (B_net=0). Therefore there is no induction due to flux linking ( emf = -d(Phi)/dt = 0) and there is only induction by flux cutting ( emf = B·v·l ). Is anyone interested? Are you wondering how can it be done? Just play a bit with the electromagnets shape and placement. This is novel as far as I know.

I can answer to your question. First, the structure you show is not the same as the ones built by Figuera, Ferranti, Mordey, etc. Could you see the difference? And second, have you measured the torque in the coil you presented? How much larger will the induced magnetic field and the torque be if you introduce an iron core?
In addition, if you read the paper I posted you will find my complain in the way the force is derived. I asked the question, if the iron-less coil loop is air, how come the permeability of vacuum (air) is not in the formula? Is the classical derivation misleading?

[forest]

Doug1, hanon you are both correct, especially Doug tips recall me my thoughts from the past. Windings has resistance ! It is most natural to use such resistance by connecting coils to kind of commutator to direct current flow through them. Yes, only understanding first Figuera patent with rotating coil and then moving forward to solid state version may allow understanding.
First thing is (I may be wrong, but rather not) Ferranti and others carefully had placed coils so the inducing coil always cut magnetic field of inducers at right angle. That is maybe the difference. Second, magnetic field of stator coils is always taken from rotating armature via commutator so it is positive feedback. Figuera modified commutator and then converted it into outside part of device.

[antijon]

Hanon, I think I have an answer and explanation for you.

A simple answer is: according to Lenz's law, any generated current establishes a magnetic field that directly opposes the field that created it. This is typical for induction. Because this is flux cutting it is different, but we can assume that if there were no opposition, then there would be no generated current.

Looking at your illustration, if you push the wire down a current will be generated by flux cutting. As we see, the magnetic field above the wire, created by the current, opposes North, and the field below the wire is attracted to South. However, a couple of things happen to cause the wire to resist movement.

First, the field above the wire doesn't repel North. It cancels North. The current and magnetic field of the wire is a direct result of the outer magnetic field. This means that it must always be weaker than the outer field, and the two can never be equally opposed. Therefore, if we have a static field equal to 100, the wire field must be weaker, so a wire field of 99. The result is a static field of 1. As another example, if I have two batteries, one battery of 12V, and one battery of 6V. If I hook the two together with positive to positive, 12V+ - 6V+ = 6V+ in one direction. In the wire, this has the effect of weakening the magnetic field above the wire.

Next, the magnetic field below the wire doesn't attract the magnetic field. It adds to it in parallel. This has the effect of compressing the lines of force of the static magnetic field.

Now we can see that as we push the wire down, the induced current reduces the field above the wire, and compresses it below the wire. This is the same behavior as a motor. Because the field lines resist the compression, the wire opposes the downward movement.

Flux cutting and this motoring action are two different things that both affect the wire. I wonder if the conductor was a flat plate instead of a round wire, if the motoring action would be reduced. 

[bajac]

As I understand that patent, the effect created by one pole is compensated by the effect from the other pole. Let´s say that current is induced in the wire (as in any other generator). This current moves along the wire creating a magnetic field around the wire. Let´s say that the North pole attracts the magnetic field around the wire. The South pole will then repel the magnetic field around the wire. As the South pole  and the North pole are at the same distance to wire both effects will cancel each other (attraction and repulsion) and there won´t be any drag to the movement of the rotary coil.

Hanon,

It will never happen! What you asking for is against the Lenz's law. It is easy to test. For instance, if you change the magnetic field for one of the air gaps shown in the Figuera's rotating generator, the net induced voltage would be zero. The reason for it is that the induced voltage must always have a polarity such that the induced current produces a magnetic field that opposes the movement of the wire. It is true. The induced magnetic field will produce a force that always opposes the movement of the wire.

In other words, if the wire moves in a magnetic field, either there is no induced current or the induced current always generates a magnetic field that opposes the movement of the wire.

[hanon]

Let suppose a simple test:

If a current is circulating along a wire when we approach a North pole the wire is attracted  toward the North pole (for example). Later, if we approach a South pole, the same wire is repelled from the South pole.

Therefore I think that is we approch both poles, North and South, to the wire at the same distance, their effects are cancelled (attraction - repulsion ) and then  there would not be any drag in the wire.

Am I right or wrong?

For me this could be the principle used for Figuera in his rotary coil patent: Common generators just use one pole, and therefore they show dragging. The other pole is much further than the first pole so ther is not compensating action to get rid of the drag. Figuera placed both poles at the same distance to the wire to create a perfect compensation of forces: atractive force and repulsive force are cancelling each other.

Alvaro: I said just one wire because Figuera did not place a whole coil between both poles (I think). If the principle with just one wire avoid the dragging then we just have to use many wires one after another!! I do not have solid theory background. I have just been studying and reading thing from the moment I met Figuera project, now two years ago.