new magnet ball in a tube motor ?

[evolvingape]

Powercat,

The basics are not optional if efficiency is desired:

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/u2l4a.cfm

Newton's 3rd Law - For every action there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force.

"Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards).

For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction.

Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface."

Your ball has a solid surface that will react to the drag forces acting on it, and spin about it's own axis. Your coils are rotating under variable drive and are efficient at 90 degrees orientation to your N / S magnetic axis. Your ball will either ping about, float, or drag with vector phase change. Alloy wheels do this on cars, when you accelerate but to an observer the wheels apear to stop and reverse direction.

If you pulse an electrical voltage through a coil the kick will drive the ball, a mechanical output. If you drive the ball with a working fluid, you generate a magnetic field when it passes through the coil, an electrical conversion output.

Without a mechanical method for relating the driven mass to the axis of rotation you cannot stabilise the phase angle or transmit torque. Your only option then is to go centrifugal magnetic gearbox, but that's complicated.

Interesting discussion anyway,

Rob 

[gyulasun]

....
@All
Been thinking about my bicycle wheel idea and would like to share some thoughts.

If I now mount the magnet ball tube on the back wheel of a conventional bicycle,
a bit like an exercise bike with the back wheel off the ground.
When I start peddling will the magnet ball stay at the bottom of the wheel ?
I am thinking that as the toroid coils passed the ball they will produce drag but surely
the ball will more or less stay at the bottom half of the wheel ?

What is not clear is if I feel any effect of drag while I am paddling,
since there is no shaft connected from the motor to transmit drag through.

Possibly I would feel some sort of gyroscope force as speed builds up ?
...
The black is the tube.
The green is the toroid coils
The red is the magnet ball

Hi Powercat,

Your bicycle wheel setup reminded me to a Polish inventor, Mr Filipiak's setup, though your setup is simpler than his,  the principle is almost similar.  DreamThinkBuild's quick test is an excellent demo on your setup.  Filipiak's setup includes permanent magnets in the 'big' wheel (which is your bicycle wheel),  in fact he used two big wheels in parallel planes.  FIRST see an animation on his setup here:   www.overunity.com/filipiak   (it is an exe file, just run it after downloading)

Then read through this old thread here (not long) and most of the links there work, except the one in member "dani" posts but most info in those nonworking links was copied and included in Stefan Hartmann's posts in that thread.
www.overunity.com/940/filipiak-motor-replication/   

Mr Filipiak filed two patent application for his setup in 1997 and in 2006, see here the first:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=8&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19990118&CC=PL&NR=320975A1&KC=A1

and here the second:
http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Synchronous-magneto-electric-motor/WO2007081229.html   

and further collection of videos here:  http://freenrg.info/Filipiak/

Now you can surely answer your first question yourself because your magnet ball will behave just like the cylindrical body (that includes the magnets) rolling on its shafts on the inner rims of the two big wheels,  gravity and inertia will keep it in movement, of course together with some input energy by your paddling or by a small electric motor. 
Your second question is also answered by the videos: yes your ball will stay in the bottom area of the bicycle wheel, it will swing a little bit back and forth (depending on its mass and the rpm of the wheel) and yes there will be Lenz drag when you paddling BUT it is not sure you would notice it...  I mean the gearing on the bike and ratio between the ball diameter and the bicycle diameter may shadow it,  a much better indication for this would be to monitor the small motor current draw during the operation when you load your output coils.  (DreamThinkBuild nicely explained it above.)
According to the descriptin in the thread (Reply #1), Filipiak claimed more output than input...  output was measured on the big wheel's shaft and it was max 10W equivalent mechanical power versus the input 2-3W (small motor and the syncronizer circuit)

(Unfortunately, there is no sound in the videos.)

rgds,  Gyula

[evolvingape]

Powercat,

The principles you are exploring here are well understood and almost perfected, 4% to go in some areas. What are you trying to achieve with your setup ?

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/how-does-a-generator-work.html

"Every machine like a generator is an extension of an idea or principle. Once you understand the idea or principle, understanding the working based on it is a simple job."

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/brushless-motor.htm

"In a typical DC motor, there are permanent magnets on the outside and a spinning armature on the inside. The permanent magnets are stationary, so they are called the stator. The armature rotates, so it is called the rotor."

http://alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm

ALTERNATOR ROTOR

"We'll start our tour of the alternator where it all starts in the alternator itself - at the alternator rotor. The rotor consists of a coil of wire wrapped around an iron core. Current through the wire coil - called "field" current - produces a magnetic field around the core. The strength of the field current determines the strength of the magnetic field. The field current is D/C, or direct current. In other words, the current flows in one direction only, and is supplied to the wire coil by a set of brushes and slip rings. The magnetic field produced has, as any magnet, a north and a south pole. The rotor is driven by the alternator pulley, rotating as the engine runs, hence the name "rotor.""

STATOR

"Surrounding the rotor is another set of coils, three in number, called the stator. The stator is fixed to the shell of the alternator, and does not turn. As the rotor turns within the stator windings, the magnetic field of the rotor sweeps through the stator windings, producing an electrical current in the windings. Because of the rotation of the rotor, an alternating current is produced. As, for example, the north pole of the magnetic field approaches one of the stator windings, there is little coupling taking place, and a weak current is produced, As the rotation continues, the magnetic field moves to the center of the winding, where maximum coupling takes place, and the induced current is at its peak. As the rotation continues to the point that the magnetic field is leaving the stator winding, the induced current is small. By this time, the south pole is approaching the winding, producing a weak current in the opposite direction. As this continues, the current produced in each winding plotted against the angle of rotation of the rotor has the form shown in figure 2. The three stator windings are spaced inside the alternator 120 degrees apart, producing three separate sets, or "phases," of output voltages, spaced 120 degrees apart, as shown in figure 3."

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/technical-articles/motorcycle-stators

Some useful info on CDI systems, another aspect of the basic principles giving you electricity to HV spark conversion capability, and access to another prime mover source field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine

"A turbine is a rotary mechanical device that extracts energy from a fluid flow and converts it into useful work. A turbine is a turbomachine with at least one moving part called a rotor assembly, which is a shaft or drum with blades attached. Moving fluid acts on the blades so that they move and impart rotational energy to the rotor. Early turbine examples are windmills and water wheels."

Rob 

[powercat]

Hi Gyula,
many thanks for providing this information to the double rotor device it is a fantastic quality build,
and really good to see it in action, and yes there is no real difference in the basic idea,
so the search goes on to try and find a way of producing free energy.

Hi Rob,
thank you for all the links I know it takes time to put it all together, it's been hard for me
to look at them and to post today with all the issues with the site crashing often,
hopefully Stefan will resolve these issues soon.

@All
It is good to know how quickly an idea can be investigated and researcht on this forum,
there are so many good members with knowledge and experience who are willing to share with all,
We can only hope one day we will all get their.

Never say never
PC

[DreamThinkBuild]

Hi Gyula,

Thanks for the link to Mr. Filiak's setup. I like what he did with his design. I'm wondering if you could replace the spinning magnets with a alternator or generator head. Have it suspended on a shaft rolling on the larger wheel using the weight of itself. Using bearings and framework it can be held so the axis of the generator doesn't rotate, like a seat on a Ferris wheel.