9/11 truth movement topic

[Elvis Oswald]

I was attacking the theories presented here.  It is not my fault they are weak.  People are saying there were no planes - not that the planes were not piloted by hijackers, but that no planes hit WTC.

On to your points.

Why should there be a video of Atta entering the plane?  Are there cameras pointed at the plane door?

Regarding the passenger lists - many news agencies posted lists of victims, and of course the hijackers were not on those lists, because they are not considered victims.  Do not confuse these with official manifests, which did in fact contain the names of the hijackers and their assigned seats.

And if you can tell me exactly which version of the "truth" you are a proponent of, I would be happy to tear down your theory in particular.

I will apologize for the "beating a straw man" comment then.   I am in agreement with you that those people, who say that there were no planes that hit the WTC that day, are not thinking logically.  And you can be sure that if intelligence agencies were involved in 9/11, then they would most certainly promote wacky theories such as death rays and holographic images of planes - just to taint the opposition.

To the points you addressed...

Of course there are cameras all over the airports.  There is video of passengers boarding those planes, and video of them going through security, and video of them elsewhere in the airport.

As to the passenger lists... I have seen the list and those names were not on it.  I saw the list on 9/11.  At the time I thought they were hijacked and so I wanted the list to see if any names stuck out.  After the names of suspects were released... I noticed that those names were not on the list.

And as for "tearing down" my theory... I think that your theory is the one that is falling down.  As I said before - only the criminals know for sure what happened on 9/11.  You and I can only talk about the probabilities.
You have stated that you believe the official story.  If you believe that without any evidence at all - then you may be as crazy as the death ray folks.

We know that planes crashed into WTC1 and WTC2.  We all saw them.  we couldn't see and can't tell what planes they are - you can't see AA on them, and you can't read numbers on the tail.  But we know that two planes hit those buildings.
Because the planes turned off their transponders... it is impossible to be 100% sure that the planes that took off are the planes that actually hit the towers.

We know that something hit the pentagon.  Whatever it was penetrated 3 rings of kevlar reinforced concrete and steel.  It left a 16 foot diameter hole in the wall.  It's obvious that a plane did not do that.  I would expect the engines to make some sort of impact... but that would be 2 holes and not one.  Add to that - the lawn was untouched... there was no evidence of a plane at the site... and military people in the pentagon said they heard a missile, not a plane.

But the biggest thing is the implosion of the towers.  WTC1, 2, and 7.  All imploded.  they collapsed at free fall speeds into their own footprint.  The only steel framed buildings to collapse due to fire EVER... before or since.
And not only did they collapse... but they collapsed at freefall speeds and they went straight down.
The freefall speeds defy the laws of physics, and the fact that they collapsed in their own footprints (all three of them)  defies statistical odds. And the fact that they are the only three EVER to do that... well shit... I guess that's a freakin' miracle.

But it doesn't matter - because you want to believe that muslims did it.  And you want everyone else to believe it too.  That is your motive.
So either you are blinded by your ethnic heritage... or you are not blind - you are just a lying manipulator.

[Prophmaji]

Well. at least rest easy in this,and those who do such things...sweat.

Things turn,and when they do, they turn fast.

Like blurting this stuff out to complete strangers,as a test.

6 years ago they'd stone you.

4 years ago, they'd scream at you, most would think you are freak. Not much different  that 6 years ago.

2 years ago, you'd get the odd person getting it and knowing it.

today: You can talk to just about anyone and they are listening. Listening intently.

They get it now.

This is Canada. today, on this subject. The country that is closest to the US in general life.

The truth is coming to America. That wall of disbelief is crumbling, like a Dam. And when dams let go, it happens fast.

Time for someone to organize the 10 million man march for impeachment, on Washington. One million per day, for 10 days. Each group of states does it in sequence. plan it out.

problem: The people must be reminded, constantly, that these leaders are merely figureheads, not the real players.

And now I'll go away. I no longer speak publically on this subject.

One more point: Don't vote for Republicans or Democrats. Both have been shown that they cannot be trusted. Simply vote for real people who have an actual real record for truth.

Don't think I'm being one sided. Canada isn't that much better these days. We have a child of our own who is a mere figurehead of a Prime Minister. Who he really works for has never been clear. (Prime Minister= Prez)

[shruggedatlas]

I was attacking the theories presented here.  It is not my fault they are weak.  People are saying there were no planes - not that the planes were not piloted by hijackers, but that no planes hit WTC.

On to your points.

Why should there be a video of Atta entering the plane?  Are there cameras pointed at the plane door?

Regarding the passenger lists - many news agencies posted lists of victims, and of course the hijackers were not on those lists, because they are not considered victims.  Do not confuse these with official manifests, which did in fact contain the names of the hijackers and their assigned seats.

And if you can tell me exactly which version of the "truth" you are a proponent of, I would be happy to tear down your theory in particular.

I will apologize for the "beating a straw man" comment then.   I am in agreement with you that those people, who say that there were no planes that hit the WTC that day, are not thinking logically.  And you can be sure that if intelligence agencies were involved in 9/11, then they would most certainly promote wacky theories such as death rays and holographic images of planes - just to taint the opposition.

To the points you addressed...

Of course there are cameras all over the airports.  There is video of passengers boarding those planes, and video of them going through security, and video of them elsewhere in the airport.

As to the passenger lists... I have seen the list and those names were not on it.  I saw the list on 9/11.  At the time I thought they were hijacked and so I wanted the list to see if any names stuck out.  After the names of suspects were released... I noticed that those names were not on the list.

And as for "tearing down" my theory... I think that your theory is the one that is falling down.  As I said before - only the criminals know for sure what happened on 9/11.  You and I can only talk about the probabilities.
You have stated that you believe the official story.  If you believe that without any evidence at all - then you may be as crazy as the death ray folks.

We know that planes crashed into WTC1 and WTC2.  We all saw them.  we couldn't see and can't tell what planes they are - you can't see AA on them, and you can't read numbers on the tail.  But we know that two planes hit those buildings.
Because the planes turned off their transponders... it is impossible to be 100% sure that the planes that took off are the planes that actually hit the towers.

We know that something hit the pentagon.  Whatever it was penetrated 3 rings of kevlar reinforced concrete and steel.  It left a 16 foot diameter hole in the wall.  It's obvious that a plane did not do that.  I would expect the engines to make some sort of impact... but that would be 2 holes and not one.  Add to that - the lawn was untouched... there was no evidence of a plane at the site... and military people in the pentagon said they heard a missile, not a plane.

But the biggest thing is the implosion of the towers.  WTC1, 2, and 7.  All imploded.  they collapsed at free fall speeds into their own footprint.  The only steel framed buildings to collapse due to fire EVER... before or since.
And not only did they collapse... but they collapsed at freefall speeds and they went straight down.
The freefall speeds defy the laws of physics, and the fact that they collapsed in their own footprints (all three of them)  defies statistical odds. And the fact that they are the only three EVER to do that... well shit... I guess that's a freakin' miracle.

But it doesn't matter - because you want to believe that muslims did it.  And you want everyone else to believe it too.  That is your motive.
So either you are blinded by your ethnic heritage... or you are not blind - you are just a lying manipulator.

I take exception with your statement that I do not base my opinion on evidence.  There is plenty of evidence to support the mainstream view.  I am not saying that there is no evidence to contradict it, but to say there is no evidence to support it is naive.

Every single thing you list has been debated to death on the Internet, from WTC 1 and 2 to the Pentagon, to WTC 7 to everything under the sun.  There are explanations and questions about everything.  I mean, if I drove to the supermarket on a Sunday and took photographs along the way, I am sure the truthers would find a way to show that I met with Bush instead.  Look - that shadow is strange for a Sunday in October!

Get some evidence of a conspiracy.  Get some witnesses.  Some memos, emails, letters, whatever.  Find out what happened to the people on those planes, if they did not die in the crashes.  Produce something besides a debate over how hot metal has to get before it breaks or bends or whatever.  The buildings fell straight down!  Oh no, that gravity at it again, pulling things straight down.  That hole looks a little small for a plane . . . I just don't know.  There is not enough rubble there!  That is the first time WTC 7 fell down like that, in the history of the WTC 7, must be a setup.  Oh look, puffs of smoke as floors are collapsing, can't be from the air rushing out - must be explosives.  That plane looks fuzzy.  Air traffic controllers voices faked.

Look, get some real evidence.  A conspiracy of this size must involve thousands of people and years of preparation and a ton of communication between various parties.  There are going to be loose ends - find them.

[Prophmaji]

We all have, over the years. You are simply refusing to look at them.

Psychology 101, my friend. The simple desire to rest easy in your own world is the key point here. It is a common psychological phenomenon. Look in the mental mirror first.

I know it seems like mudslinging, but everyone eventually comes to the understanding that Ayn Rand is was a pseudo-intellectual ...and in the end, an idiot. Far more harm than good.

[Tinker]

Well. at least rest easy in this,and those who do such things...sweat.

Things turn,and when they do, they turn fast.

Like blurting this stuff out to complete strangers,as a test.

6 years ago they'd stone you.

4 years ago, they'd scream at you, most would think you are freak. Not much different  that 6 years ago.

2 years ago, you'd get the odd person getting it and knowing it.

today: You can talk to just about anyone and they are listening. Listening intently.

They get it now.

This is Canada. today, on this subject. The country that is closest to the US in general life.

The truth is coming to America. That wall of disbelief is crumbling, like a Dam. And when dams let go, it happens fast.

And what would that Truth be?

Time for someone to organize the 10 million man march for impeachment, on Washington. One million per day, for 10 days. Each group of states does it in sequence. plan it out.

problem: The people must be reminded, constantly, that these leaders are merely figureheads, not the real players.

The real Players were elected by the people for better or worse can you say the same?

And now I'll go away. I no longer speak publically on this subject.

One more point: Don't vote for Republicans or Democrats. Both have been shown that they cannot be trusted. Simply vote for real people who have an actual real record for truth.

Hmm exactaly what do you consider "The Truth"

Don't think I'm being one sided. Canada isn't that much better these days. We have a child of our own who is a mere figurehead of a Prime Minister. Who he really works for has never been clear. (Prime Minister= Prez)

So who do we believe? The extremist That believe that we should bow to their beliefs. Or pay to continue our existance on this land?
Or should we just kneel to our captors awaiting  our fate based on Sharia laws.

Most that deal with reality will understand the truth. The rest will learn or perish as has been shown in Iraq. It is up to the readers to decide their path .

Most here should know that their is a Serious effort in the extremist movement to promote an agenda in the west on the net.

Prophmaji  anyone know who this is and his affiliations ?

You might want to check him out before you decide what is right or wrong for you.

Tinker