Resonance and HHO

[pauldude000]

I am not new to OU, but I am somewhat of a newbie to HHO. Something which has niggled at the back of my mind, nagging me for years has been the concept of producing HHO using resonance.


What I mean by this is the process of applying an electrical signal, the frequency of which is a sub-harmonic to the length of the H20 water molecule, which should make it vibrate like a bad dog. Not wasteful of energy like a microwave, but tuned as close as possible; treating the length of the water molecule as a quarter wavelength. If allowed to remain, this would just heat the water. However, vibrating at its natural resonant frequency a sudden input of dis-harmonic energy(sudden bursts of DC) should cause the molecule to throw itself apart, in conception sort of like a V8 engine at too high of RPM's. Frequency should be the key here, though higher voltage or amperage should yield higher volume/time.


Basically using finesse and not a sledgehammer. What made me originally think of this was Tesla's mechanical resonance experiments.


What do you guys think, and please share input. You longtimers at HHO may have already tried this, and I may be spouting old hat concepts here. If anyone knows the specific physical length of a water molecule it would be helpful.

[Gwandau]

Hi pauldude000,

glad to se you also are intrigued by the mystery of water and its hidden promise of abundant energy.


Water molecules are V-shaped with a molecular diameter ranging from about 2.75 Å (275 picometers), or more clearly, having the shape of a triangle with 2 sides measuring 95pm and one side measuring156pm.

The reason for differing values 275 versus 156 pm lies in the variation due to the vibrational condition of the water molecule quoted from link below:

"The actual values depend on the vibrational state of the molecule with even values of 180° being attainable during high order bend vibrations (v₂ >= 7, λ < 900 nm) for the H-O-H angle. Vibrations are asymmetric around the mean positions. In the ground state, the bond angle is 104.5°.The atomic diameter can be determined from interpolation of the effective ionic radii of the isoelectronic ions (from crystal data) of O^2- (2.80 Å), OH^- (2.74 Å) and H₃O⁺ (2.76 Å) . Coincidentally, this diameter is similar to the length of a hydrogen bond. The water molecule bond length is 0.96 Å."

As you can see I found a nice page with easily accessed information regarding the unique properties of water. I highly recommend anyone exploring the HHO path to get in depth aqquainted with the mysterious molecule before applying any ideas in the workshop.

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/molecule.html

This is very intriguing:
"In the liquid state, in spite of 80% of the electrons being concerned with bonding, the three atoms do not stay together as the hydrogen atoms are constantly exchanging between water molecules due to protonation/deprotonation processes." "The hydrogen bonds are continually breaking and reforming at timescales faster than 200 femtoseconds."

This link from same page shows the vibrational spectra of liquid water, and the chart depicted there may be of interest:

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html


We are no doubt standing on the tip of the iceberg here, below us are a massive amount of parameters to be taken into consideration.
Among all the different parameters to consider we have for example the three dimensional crystal structure of the liquid phase of water, which is a big chapter in itself.

As far as I am concerned, correctly implemented resonance geometry is the key to HHO. But if it was as simple as the frequency directly related to the diameter of the water molecule, many before us would have found the key long ago. No, be prepared for a much longer journey, much deeper down into the mystery of water, if you want to succeed in what everybody else on earth hitherto have failed to find.

Take a look at the phenomenon of resonance itself and ask yourself why reverbration phenomena is found everywhere, from the macro level and expressed as nodes all the way down to the Planck scale. I regard resonance in all its forms as reflections of the source dynamics responsible for the very existence of matter itself. It is like echoes from the zero point geometry.

Resonce patterns reflects the innermost qualities of time, space and matter.

Yes, resonance certainly is the key, and the intricate design of the resonance pattern needed to open up the HHO door remains to be found. And just like a perfect musical composition, the instruments has to be perfectly tuned for the key to work.


The HHO path is an unparalleled adventure in the alternative energy quest, when the key is found, energy will be abundant and the monetary system will dissolve and humanity take its first steps into true freedom.


Gwandau

[TechStuf]

The HHO path is an unparalleled adventure in the alternative energy quest, when the key is found, energy will be abundant and the monetary system will dissolve and humanity take its first steps into true freedom

Poetic!  Naive.  But poetic!

First, the HHO path is a much paralleled adventure.  Thus far, all alternative energy adventures have largely run parallel courses....and who ends up holding the keys?  And as for the monetary system, it is already insolvent, so only the illusion of the system remains, and it too dissolves as we speak.  Does one really think that the myriad rocket equipped drones being manufactured at a frenetic pace, the millions of rounds of ammo purchased by the DHS, the many piles of plastic FEMA coffins, and the many road signs reading: "Martial law in effect" are just for show, or just in case?  The powers that be aren't waiting around for the keys to a 'molecular savior', as they have proven that they have all the toys they can handle (and then some) in order to 'handle' those their hypocritical eyes identify as unfit for their long planned new odor of things.

And as for humanity taking it's first steps into 'true freedom', I would remind one that man has a sordid history of trampling myriad 'free gifts' into the mud from which he came.  And only seems to appreciate, if for a short time, just the costly ones.

Free energy?  Look at what it's cost so far....and who (as foretold) holds the power at this late hour.

As for the the True steps to True Freedom, there aren't many left to take, and they all lead to the feet of Jesus Christ. 

Free energy and True freedom combined.

"They will cry peace! Peace! when there is no peace"  "Wars and the rumors of war".

"I come not to bring peace, but a sword!"

So, Whose side do you fight for, dear reader, your own? The enemies of God, or will you stand with the One Who believes in you more than you could possibly believe in Him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dpGWYZMDc



TS

[pauldude000]

Hi pauldude000,

glad to se you also are intrigued by the mystery of water and its hidden promise of abundant energy.


Water molecules are V-shaped with a molecular diameter ranging from about 2.75 Å (275 picometers), or more clearly, having the shape of a triangle with 2 sides measuring 95pm and one side measuring156pm.

The reason for differing values 275 versus 156 pm lies in the variation due to the vibrational condition of the water molecule quoted from link below:

"The actual values depend on the vibrational state of the molecule with even values of 180° being attainable during high order bend vibrations (v₂ >= 7, λ < 900 nm) for the H-O-H angle. Vibrations are asymmetric around the mean positions. In the ground state, the bond angle is 104.5°.The atomic diameter can be determined from interpolation of the effective ionic radii of the isoelectronic ions (from crystal data) of O^2- (2.80 Å), OH^- (2.74 Å) and H₃O⁺ (2.76 Å) . Coincidentally, this diameter is similar to the length of a hydrogen bond. The water molecule bond length is 0.96 Å."

As you can see I found a nice page with easily accessed information regarding the unique properties of water. I highly recommend anyone exploring the HHO path to get in depth aqquainted with the mysterious molecule before applying any ideas in the workshop.

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/molecule.html

This is very intriguing:
"In the liquid state, in spite of 80% of the electrons being concerned with bonding, the three atoms do not stay together as the hydrogen atoms are constantly exchanging between water molecules due to protonation/deprotonation processes." "The hydrogen bonds are continually breaking and reforming at timescales faster than 200 femtoseconds."

This link from same page shows the vibrational spectra of liquid water, and the chart depicted there may be of interest:

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html


We are no doubt standing on the tip of the iceberg here, below us are a massive amount of parameters to be taken into consideration.
Among all the different parameters to consider we have for example the three dimensional crystal structure of the liquid phase of water, which is a big chapter in itself.

As far as I am concerned, correctly implemented resonance geometry is the key to HHO. But if it was as simple as the frequency directly related to the diameter of the water molecule, many before us would have found the key long ago. No, be prepared for a much longer journey, much deeper down into the mystery of water, if you want to succeed in what everybody else on earth hitherto have failed to find.

Take a look at the phenomenon of resonance itself and ask yourself why reverbration phenomena is found everywhere, from the macro level and expressed as nodes all the way down to the Planck scale. I regard resonance in all its forms as reflections of the source dynamics responsible for the very existence of matter itself. It is like echoes from the zero point geometry.

Resonce patterns reflects the innermost qualities of time, space and matter.

Yes, resonance certainly is the key, and the intricate design of the resonance pattern needed to open up the HHO door remains to be found. And just like a perfect musical composition, the instruments has to be perfectly tuned for the key to work.


The HHO path is an unparalleled adventure in the alternative energy quest, when the key is found, energy will be abundant and the monetary system will dissolve and humanity take its first steps into true freedom.


Gwandau

Gwandau.


Thank you for the info I asked for. I am considering the resonance aspect towards the molecular length to achieve mechanical resonance as close to Q as possible. I want to try inducing the vibration by treating the molecule as an antenna, so to speak and hitting it with a resonating electrical pulse.


I do not want a resonating large scale electromagnetic field, as that could theoretically be quite dangerous to anyone close, as we are a large percentage water in our own construction. However direct pulse or induced electrostatic fields between two plates are open game.


Sonic vibration for a direct mechanical resonation may well be almost as dangerous as the electromagnetic fields due to undesired reflection.


I see several ways to possibly go about this.


However, when talking resonance, almost everyone ignores Tesla who pioneered the concept. Resonance means nothing unless energy is placed at a desired point for a reason.


Quarter wave or three quarter wave resonance places the available energy at one end or the other of an antenna. Half wave and full wave neutralize the effect, placing the energy at either in the middle of the antenna, or at two equidistant nodes on the antenna.


For our purposes, half wave and full wave resonance are undesirable as they are inherently stable and not destructive resonances due to a lack of energy imbalance within the system. We need an energy imbalance upon the molecule, so that it will naturally throw off the hydrogen atoms at the ends. I see the possibility of two frequencies needed to keep the ions from just grabbing another free hydrogen atom and reforming. One frequency aimed at the hydrogen molecule itself, and the other aimed at an OH ion.


This should destabilize both, and lead to prevention of spontaneous molecule reformation.


The question is has a systematic approach from the molecule up ever been tried?

[Gwandau]

pauldude000,

I've heard about a Dr. Andrija Puharich, and Keely of course, but there seems to be no validated scientific papers on the works of these persons.

Dr. Puharich introduced an alternating current at a key frequency of 600 cycles per second. A barrel-shaped cavity contained the water in Puharich's system. 
The cavity resonated with the impulses in somewhat the same way the body of a violin resonates with the sound of one string, adding higher and lower harmonics to the principal tone. The additional harmonics, Puharich says, cause the proton in the hydrogen atom TO ROTATE, further forcing the hydrogen to split from the oxygen.

Keely, who was using accoustic sound, claimed that water can be progressively dissociated at 620, 630 and 12,000 cycles per second. These are on the molecular, atomic and etheric levels respectively.


Besides that, the only systematic approaches on the academic level I have heard of are concerned with either thermochemical or photocatalythic methodology,
besides some scientific off road experiments with ultra sound and radiowaves, the former still only causing mediocre increases in hydrogen production,
the latter ones spending just as much energy as oldfashioned electrolysis.

Of course there are a lot of guys doing wild experiments in their garages, but I honestly doubt we will hit the sweet spot by mere trial and error.
The parameters involved in bonding the water molecule are just a bit too complex to allow any one striking gold by merely fiddling with sequential PWM:s and the like.

Your approach seems to be quite careful and receptive, and the idea of subjecting the molecule to two frequencies sounds interesting.
A lot of interesting alternatives comes to my mind, like using one of the frequencies as a carrier frequency and so forth.

I'm going to walk this adventurous path myself as soon as my new workshop is installed this spring, and among the different areas of experimentation planned,
splitting water research is by far the most thrilling of them all for some reason, and I get vitalized just by thinking about it.


Gwandau