Das Triumphirende PERETUUM MOBILE ORFFYREANUM

[circle]

dont be discouraged conrad..
for about two hours after i first found that image i was under similar impression
my first idea was that there was a discharge of energy from the rope on display to the axle it winds around
i was sitting looking at my attempt to draw out a diagram detailing the function on display when i realized that was not the case
the force driving the motion is inside the wheel and not on display
but five days later i had the solution
i dont think my claim has much appeal to people
but consider the response i mentioned in a seperate post
a physicist told me i 'need to do something with this'..
i do not consider their insight as to what unseen obstacles might exist to be adequate to comprehend why i do not
how does the bessler quote go? when he said 'it makes no difference one ounce this way or that'
it really does not matter
and it can be seen as glaringly obvious when looking at the schematic

people are just not doing a through job at defining that which they are looking at
diagram your idea
then
draw a line down through the axle
and
identify what you see
by name i could cite that many ideas and systems that people present could be refered to as 'symetrical'
while any repetitive mechanical structure is going to have that as a characteristic many people somehow imagine that the design ends there; that the working wheel is somehow symetrical and ordered
i will point out that it is systematicly disordered with relation to the two halves

and i wonder what bessler was thinking when he wrote 'and still do you not see?'
it is so glaringly obvious once you know, it is litteraly amazing that one can dump so much clue and hint and others fail to gasp

that physicist i mentioned this to was led through it step by step
and agreed

[conradelektro]

but five days later i had the solution
i dont think my claim has much appeal to people
but consider the response i mentioned in a seperate post
a physicist told me i 'need to do something with this'..
i do not consider their insight as to what unseen obstacles might exist to be adequate to comprehend why i do not
how does the bessler quote go? when he said 'it makes no difference one ounce this way or that'
it really does not matter
and it can be seen as glaringly obvious when looking at the schematic

by name i could cite that many ideas and systems that people present could be refered to as 'symetrical'
while any repetitive mechanical structure is going to have that as a characteristic many people somehow imagine that the design ends there; that the working wheel is somehow symmetrical and ordered
i will point out that it is systematicly disordered with relation to the two halves

and i wonder what bessler was thinking when he wrote 'and still do you not see?'
it is so glaringly obvious once you know, it is litteraly amazing that one can dump so much clue and hint and others fail to gasp

that physicist i mentioned this to was led through it step by step
and agreed

@circle: Well, I still do not see, but I will keep trying. Thank you any way for the hints.

I am referring to the Google Books publication of the book and to the pages you already showed in this thread:
http://books.google.at/books?id=f0yV7mWwQgQC&pg=PA144&dq=Das+Triumphirende&hl=de&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3

The contents of the book up to page 143 are just polite talk (necessary at the time when addressing a noble person like a duke). The book becomes interesting and technical starting with the drawing at page 144 and the list of components on pages 145 to 148.

Unfortunately I can not see anything after page 148 because Google blanks these pages.

Since you have a copy of the book, could you please tell us what one finds on the remaining pages in case it is just small talk again. But if it is technical, it would be nice if you could first show us these technical pages starting with page 149.

Are there more than one drawing page in the book?

Greetings, Conrad

Observation: The two "Perpendicul 8" (one on each side of the wheel) drive the axle of the wheel ("Hauptwelle 3") by help off the "Leisten 9" and the "Zapffen und Corben 10" (crank). Either the wheel drives the pendulums or the pendulums drive the wheel. In both cases the motion would stop after a while (till friction dampens all initial movement). So, this is just an observation and no solution or explanation of the riddle.

[FatBird]

Can somebody post a simplified diagram, or a different page view.

I am looking & looking, but I cannot see the mechanism that causes the wheel to rotate.

.

[conradelektro]

I would say, these are the only drawings available:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/drawings.html

And since Bessler's time people are speculating what could be inside the big wheel, which offers a lot of space in its interior to hide some stuff.

My take is that the available drawings do not allow a definitive conclusion. Poster "circle" claims to have some insight, but so far he keeps talking in riddles instead of explaining. The pages of the book he published in this thread are of little help. May be he will come back with more concrete information.

Greetings, Conrad

[circle]

conrad,

the pendelum retards the rate of motion.. governs it.. keeping it within a stable pace
look to the work of george bidell airy for the basis in mathematics

fatbird..  there is nothing to see..  "the force driving the motion is inside the wheel and not on display"

conrad..

you must find the peices of the puzzle and then solve them
it does not suffice to declare that there are not enough peices simply because you have yet to find enough of them

in four days i had all but one of them (actually two if you figure in the second of the two directional latches without which it will not function [this is your requested 'something more concrete'])
at the time i did not know how much yet was missing but i knew that i had sorted what i could not refute to the fullest extent posible within my own ability
on the fourth day i spent at least 5 hours reading an english captains log from the german archives that i had found besslers written work in
it is a habbit of mine to return to a language i am more familar with when i get to the point of burnout when dealing with linguistic immersion
even if only returning to a language that is poorly mastered it is a comfort to return to the familiar
i spent those hours immersed in the captains detailed log.. immersed in the visual descriptive detail of pacific natives, beautiful pristine beachs and the struggle to take from them that which is needed to survive
for those hours the first wheel of bessler was two years off in the furture and on the other side of the world

although it has not yet been my intention to offer my insight for free i have not been trying to speak in riddle ..even so you make a good point
the weights change what they are to the wheel as it turns
to make a reference to a riddle that indicates the nature of one aspect of the change;
"when is a door not a door?..
  ..when it is ajar"
its funny how well that riddle fits