Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[jbignes5]

 I am going to say it one more time. You are out of your field here. I did not say EM waves. I said Longitudinal waves which is a whole different beast then your lossy EM wave. The longitudinal wave only goes one way. It does not travel back an forth like an EM wave. Hence the term longitudinal. Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.


EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

As for your assertion that the bifilar coil is a normal inductor is disinformation. This is not true and the simple video shows that proof that I provided. When compared to the reception and broad casting ability there is a clear difference between the bifilar pancake coil and a normal solenoid pancake coil. In order to get a spark to jump a gap there is a threshold of voltage one has to breach. This is usually in the 30Kv per CM. In the example in the video the solenoid had 1mm of spaceand could not fire very well and in the bifilar coil it was 2mm and fired very well. This is not a magnetic coupling. It is an electric coupling because it was using a High voltage supply with a rotary break machine to create the impulses from the High voltage very low current being supplied.

It's not disinformation.  What I said is that the "bifilar" coil specific to this patent will be marginally different from a similar regularly wound coil.  For example, when you use it as the drive coil in a pulse motor you will not see any difference.  Whne you use it as an electromagnet you will not see any difference.  If you check the self-resonant frequency it will be lower than a similar regularly wound coil, but that in itself is not significant.

When compared to the reception and broad casting ability there is a clear difference between the bifilar pancake coil and a normal solenoid pancake coil.

See here is where we have a gap.  I know that you post these generalizations and believe them.  If there is a difference that's fine, but you have to have some specifics.  Do you really have data to back that up?  I would not be surprised is there are differences.  But for sure there are other coil geometries that will have their own unique differences.  "Different" is not the same as fawning over the coil patent and claiming all of these amazing attributes.  Also, I will point out to you that there is no mention of the application to radio transmission/reception in the patent at all.   There are all sorts of coil-type configurations in antennas, there is no special claim to fame for the Tesla patent in this case.

Again you are out of your field here and I respectfully ask you to stop the bullying tactics.

Honestly I feel that you are bullying me so think about that.   Sometimes if you post something outrageous I am aghast and you might get a strong comment from me, but I am not trying to bully you.  This is the real world and you can expect some push back if you state what I consider to be an outrageous statement.

There was even a method to do analogue computers to help with that analyzing which showed that capacitance converts current to longitudinal energy and coil convert current to the magnetic. But I don't expect the great OZ to understand anything of these analogies or methods because they did not teach you to think, only to follow what they were telling you.

What I can tell you is this.  If you brought a real RF engineer into the discussion about this demo then a lot of light would shed on this issue.  I am not an RF engineer, but I believe that when an EM wave propagates, the electrical and magnetic components of the wave can be on any set of axes, including the "Z" axis in the direction of propagation.  By the same token what does "longitudinal" really mean if the two components have to be at right angles to each other?  i.e.; if the electric field is along the z axis, the "longitudinal" component, then the magnetic field has to be in the x-y plane, which is definitely not longitudinal.   Same thing if you have the magnetic on z then the electric has to be in the x-y plane.  Have you ever thought about that?  You can't equate longitudinal sound waves with EM waves.  I am no EM wave propagation expert but I seriously doubt that you or the vast majority of posters extolling the virtues of longitudinal waves have ever even considered this basic fact.  The root cause of that is the idea that you can leap-frog past a science or engineering education or self-education and just read Tesla and the chat boards filled with Tesla enthusiasts were most of them are in the same situation.  It just doesn't work like that in the real world.

As for the input power well how much power does a 10kv machine take to operate? 200-500 ma?<-this depends on the size of the transformer or the design of the transformer. This is because it converts current into higher voltages and usually chokes the current of the source. Duh even a first grader knows that...

You are not making any sense here at all at all at all.  Here is were you are showing your serious limitations by trying to be dismissive of making power measurements.  It's simply ridiculous and yes you deserve the strong language here.

Do not compare us to those scammers <-This is yet another tactic you guys apply to scare people away from investigating the claims of others. I have neither asked no one to do this work or tried to sell anything at all. I am doing this to investigate Tesla's work and that is the point of this thread. I also know the dangers of regular currents and know the non dangers of Tesla's longitudinal energy. Since there is little current in it it has no power to hurt anything if done properly. And this is the point I would like to bring up again. You have to use this in the proper methods for it to become harmless. Tesla informed us that 2k impulses a second is where it becomes harmless or even from his claims beneficial in the electric field around the device. Anything lower and it becomes dangerous, with a single impulse a second having very damaging results.

I have no doubt that you are sincere and not a scammer.  But you also have to be sincere with respect to your electronics knowledge and bench experience if you intend on testing stuff on the bench.  Your comments about "regular currents and know the non dangers of Tesla's longitudinal energy" are problematic.  I am not sure but 2 KHz may be the lowest frequency for a safe skin-effect for doing the standard AC Van der Graff generator demo.  But beyond that demo, any discussion about "longitudinal energy" and practical real-world applications would have to be analyzed on a case by case basis.

Again, good luck with your testing, but please look at what your instruments are telling you and take it at face value.  There may be some interesting applications that you can demonstrate that may have practical uses.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

I am going to say it one more time. You are out of your field here. I did not say EM waves. I said Longitudinal waves which is a whole different beast then your lossy EM wave. The longitudinal wave only goes one way. It does not travel back an forth like an EM wave. Hence the term longitudinal. Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.

EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

For starters I am assuming that we are talking about some kind of wave propagation in air or in space, not along a pair of wires.  is this correct?  If yes then by definition we are talking about some kind of electromagnetic wave.  Do you disagree with that statement?

"Longitudinal" means "in the same direction of the movement."  So if a wave is moving in the z direction then something is oscillating on the z axis.  Do you have a different definition?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/longitudinal+wave

longitudinal wave
n
(Physics / General Physics) a wave that is propagated in the same direction as the displacement of the transmitting medium

Can you give me some links about longitudinal waves to look at?

EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

Seriously Jbignes5, the quote above is you stepping into the Tesla Twilight Zone for me.  Waves travel in a medium and the components of the wave oscillate back and forth -> a wave.

So if you hit the end of a wooden 2"x4" longitudinal waves travel down the 2"x4".  But it's not the same for any kind of electromagnetic wave traveling in air or empty space.  The electric and magnetic components have to oscillate and they are at right angles to each other.

So if you want to educate me with a few of your favourite links that would be great.  But I am not feeling what you are saying at all.  It appears to me that this is an artificial construct in your mind to "make all the Tesla puzzle pieces fit together."  That's a dangerous thing.  Here is an example from real life:  The Bedini enthusiasts say that the back-EMF spike is "radiant energy" when in fact it's not.  It's a lie, it's an artificial construct to "make all of the Bedini puzzle pieces fit together."  So you get self-propagating ignorance in that particular case.

Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.

Here is the issue Jbignes5:  It's possible that I don't understand and I am ignorant.  It's also possible that what I posted about the electric or magnetic component being in the z direction is considered a longitudinal wave.  But it's also possible that the whole notion of longitudinal waves like you are discussing them is just an artificial construct among Tesla enthusiasts where I am going to assume the vast majority of them are not electromagnetic propagation experts.  It's possible that it's all false with no substance.  It's a reality that may be unpleasant for you, but it is a distinct possibility.

MileHigh

[jbignes5]

 There are many versions of the longitudinal waves in the main stream. But when talking about impulses and longitudinal waves within the electric field it transforms to a radiant field. The external electric field energizes the object or target and it radiates the impulses back out from the object if it is not segmented. This is the exact method that nature uses to impart energy to an object. There is not energy inside of the object because it follows static laws and not electrodynamic laws as you retort verbatim.


In fact they are finding this out on the massive scale like in our solar system. The focus is our sun and it radiates the energy back out from that point. The solar system is considered as a body in space or as a unit. The entire value of potential is centralized at the point of our sun and the solar winds are the flow of charges radiating out from that point towards the edge of the body that is our solar system. Every body in fact takes a portion of the total value that the solar system has and radiates to a degree that value based on the amount of medium that that body displaces. This is how solar gravity works. Every body has a central point as well where great amounts of movement cause heating and even magnetic effects. The magnetic is not the genesis of anything if anything it is a great loss of the value of this potential field along with heat. But those are mere conversions of this potential. The conversion is based solely on matter and if there were no bodies in this space it would be dark and most void like.

Look up the Thunderbolts project.

Like I said impulses do not oscillate they go from a central point and radiate out with for a lack of a better word for it finger like extensions from the body. The field is instantly on and off and that is not an oscillation of the traditional sense. It is an exciter field. The excitement comes from having full potential to no or near no potential and travels faster then the speed of light. If it didn't then light would not know how to move or which way to go in a sense. So the field has to go before the light for it to propagate.


Lets do an experiment here. We all know that each form of matter has a standing potential when in the medium. This is because each atom displaces the medium with a different density and is energized by that same medium. This difference will actually cause a flow of current within a piece (wire) of matter like copper between the two pieces of matter. The copper could be considered the balance conductor at that point or focal point between the two pieces of matter. This is exactly what led us to the crystal batteries experiment. And the evidence is very strong that we are converting the radiance of our planet into a flow of real current to light an led. Yes it is not strong and no there is little galvanic process with the current tests being done.


So we have a limitless supply of energy if we only have the foresight to admit we were wrong about certain aspects of our current science.


But there is much opposition to even look into this stuff and I suspect that two things are at the root of the problem. One is pride and the other is greed. The pride in "thinking" or "believing" you have the right position on things is a very nasty egotistical belief. If we had viewed this from the correct aspect all along then we wouldn't be in the position we are in today. If we understood the true nature of our environment we would have seen things correctly and not have to make up concepts like the electron to explain the errors in our science and the subsequent math to support those logical fallacies. In fact I truly believe that the ancient societies knew way more then our own ego's will let us believe. They knew about the real composition of matter and it's relation to it's environment. That all energy is not within the matter but external and matter is only a filter or converter and reflector (reradiator) of external energy of the medium we live in.


The greed part is that they use it to harness our own energy and contain us in little boxes while always figuring out new ways to extract more and more as time goes on. We are taught from day one that there is no free lunch but yet our solar system has been going for a billion years without one bill. We are schooled in their ways and as we have found out this creates a pay as you go mentality. They hammer it into our heads on a daily basis and formerly teach us this slavery system.


But as we are finding out there is a free lunch. We just have to change our views on things and get with the program nature is trying to teach us. Through experimentation we will find the answer but that means doing the experiments in a way that works and not in the same old same old mentality. Magnetic fields and EM waves will never net us anything but losses. But charge an object that is designed to hold charge and it will stay charged forever. The electric field is the answer and we need to devise ways that allow us to convert at the load this electric field without losses in the transmission. Yes the transformation will have some losses or changes from electric to heat and magnetic fields but even then we are becoming better in our designing of devices to utilize the magnetic field more efficiently like in the example of the Joule thief.


Lasersaber has done much work in experimenting with this concept and the joule ringer is the outcome. We just need to get past this magnetic worship and move on to much better concepts. Tesla was one for increasing the voltage to a point that almost no loss was associated with his "Transmitter" The magnification came from energizing the mass of the world and increasing the resultant ability to run multiple(millions) of current converters through the capacity of the world. Each impulse would energize the space around the world through this electrode capacitance of the world itself without harm to us or anything living. Yes it will disrupt "normal" devices because they were not designed to work on the system he envisioned. If we try to do this now it will destroy a great many devices in the world but those devices are tied to a system that is based on a lossy theory (Magnetics and EM theory). It is designed as such so we have to continuously have to pay to keep it running. And this is the crux of the problem and the bane of our society.


Since I don't condone breaking others peoples stuff we must develop different methods to obtain the same outcome and it can be based on the method I have described above. A more natural way also that is much better for us and the environment. A more passive way as well that amplifies the current systems we already have and maybe get more out then in.


You talk about measurements and reporting correct data and that has been my aim the whole time. But we will have to change our devices to measure this kind of energy. It is not as simple as hooking up a current technology meter to our device and expecting a readout that makes sense. In most cases like has been seen that the device will fail and after a bit will break because it can not handle the capablities needed to analyze impulse and radiant effects. So both new devices have to be devised to handle this stuff. Even Tesla had to have modified static voltage measuring devices to correctly analyze the effects of longitudinal energy.


My first move is to experiment with this coil. I have done preliminary experiments that shows me that it works well with longitudinal energy or impulses. It is the best antenna for impulses because it has almost no feedback as shown in the short video showing the differences of using either a solenoid vs Bifilar coil as the broadcaster antenna. But I suspect that geometry plays a role in how you excite the bifilar coil. From around the coil on the same plane an impulse field will effect the current flowing in the bifilar coil augmenting it's output. and not the way the guys was showing for the bifilar coil as a receiver.


My experiments will tell the truth.

As for you insisting I didn't answer your question well to be honest I did and you are ignoring the post. Go back and reread my posts after your question and you will see. This is the problem with you, you don't read anything you paraphrase it and then spout some sill thing like you are wrong. Like I said I don't rightly care what you "Think". To me you just regurgitate what they have taught you if you ever learned anything in your life. You don't check the facts like in the video I showed that you thought was credible and 75% of the video was BS. So go back and check the video again and then check the facts not the information in your mind that was fuzzy or you couldn't remember right.

I mean thats why I keep telling you you are out of your field here. Your memory is bad and half of what you think you remember you make up in some kind of logical fallacy.

As for proof by experiment lets look at this video which is similar but different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWVbTk5Z9Q

There is a lot of work out there already. You just have to do the research then of course replicate it to prove it to yourself.

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

I am not going to comment too much on your unusual view of the solar system and the displacement pressure stuff and longitudinal waves and related matters.  I am just going to make select comments.

But when talking about impulses and longitudinal waves within the electric field it transforms to a radiant field.

"Radiant field" is a meaningless term unless you state exactly what you mean by that.

And the evidence is very strong that we are converting the radiance of our planet into a flow of real current to light an led. Yes it is not strong and no there is little galvanic process with the current tests being done.

I read something the other day were they sad that the "crystal batteries" are nothing more than galvanic current and the moisture was being provided by the air.

We are taught from day one that there is no free lunch but yet our solar system has been going for a billion years without one bill.

Yes I am familiar with that idea that the solar system must be powered.  I still in a way find is shocking that people that are ostensibly interested in science in one form or another make statements like this.  All of the planets are in a perpetual free fall around the sun.  Do you get that?

Lasersaber has done much work in experimenting with this concept and the joule ringer is the outcome. We just need to get past this magnetic worship and move on to much better concepts. Tesla was one for increasing the voltage to a point that almost no loss was associated with his "Transmitter" The magnification came from energizing the mass of the world and increasing the resultant ability to run multiple(millions) of current converters through the capacity of the world. Each impulse would energize the space around the world through this electrode capacitance of the world itself without harm to us or anything living. Yes it will disrupt "normal" devices because they were not designed to work on the system he envisioned. If we try to do this now it will destroy a great many devices in the world but those devices are tied to a system that is based on a lossy theory (Magnetics and EM theory). It is designed as such so we have to continuously have to pay to keep it running. And this is the crux of the problem and the bane of our society.

If only the fantasy you write about above was true.

In most cases like has been seen that the device will fail and after a bit will break because it can not handle the capablities needed to analyze impulse and radiant effects. So both new devices have to be devised to handle this stuff.

Honestly I view the statement above as a complete and total cop-out.  You guys have been talking about this stuff for years and years and saying that you can't measure it and need new measuring devices.  Well, WHERE ARE THEY?  I have a very cynical view about this.  I view it as a curtain to hide behind.  "We think we know it's thee but we can't measure it."  It's like saying I have a $400K sports car but you just can't see it.  It's too convenient and if the enthusiasts say it and believe it among themselves then you are basically giving the scammers Carte Blanche to use it too to pull off their cons.

To be continued in part 2.

MileHigh