Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[Magluvin]

And that's very similar to what was taking place on this thread before I joined it and got involved in the debate.  Between myself and Gyula and others we cleared up a lot of these issues and educated people.  And that's a good thing and the more healthy debates you have on the forum, the better off we all are.

MileHigh

Well we are looking into this bifilar coil no matter what you say. You want us to just believe that the bifi coil is just a coil and a cap, an LC. Well we are looking into that to see if it is true. But you dont want that.

You say you and Gyula cleared it all up and you educated people. Who did you educate? Sparks? Jbigs? ME? Farmhand?  Who?   You dont even do experiments! You push people to answer questions like you own this. You dont. You waste sooo much page space and that puts big gaps in threads that are useless. Id rather you were not here. Its all very disruptive.

Mags

[jbignes5]

Hey everybody,

Let's dip into the Energetic Forum for a second.  In the "The Solenoid/Electromagnt" thread a lot of posters make comments related to the Tesla bifilar coil patent.

I am going to quote some of the comments here:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I've been advocating this particular "improvement" for some time for particularly efficient electric motors using magnetic attraction. If you take a coil with the same number of turns, and compare it to this configuration using the same power supply, you will find this coil design produces a much stronger field for the same applied power (about 75% gain).

These coils also store much larger amounts of energy in the electric field, which causes huge current spikes (amperage = change in the electric field/time) along with huge voltage spikes (voltage = change in the magnetic field/time) when the power is "Abruptly Disrupted".
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Well Chain,  looking at the patent I see why it's an improvement as the coil b. acts as gears working with each other if you picture the direction of the flux spinning around the wire.  figure a. being a standard coil has every flux orbit in a state of reluctance with the ones adjacent to it.
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A coil will heat up if it produces a magnetic field (stator) in opposition to another magnetic field (rotor). When you smash two opposing fields together, alot of heat is produced, much akin to slamming two cars together head on.
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P.S. I did read the patent many, many times. I have not "deciphered" it incorrectly. Tesla doesn't really mention magnetism even though it's part of the title. The claims of a stronger field per watt are coming from me. I don't know where you gathered that I was claiming Tesla.
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If that happen surely it will give more power to the created magnetic field, which is in other cases consumed into resistance heating. In such case pancake bifilar coil wound be essentially close to room temperature superconductor or self-adjusted tank circuit at resonance.
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I have never understood the pancake coil but thought
it was about Tesla's high voltage high frequency work,
and a coil which generated a good magnetic field
without the inductance that interferes with HV/HF
circuits. Is this right?
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I believe a finely tuned/designed a coil can have a tighter stronger flux if aligned properly like a north/south halbach. Or a looser general field.  These modifications would require very precise latices with magnetically resistive and conductive layering.
-----------
I notice that when the power is applied there is a huge surge of field strength that dampens out. A single wire wound coil also possesses this interesting phenomena, however the bifilar coil in either configuration (series or parallel) causes a much more pronounced effect. The currents circulating inside the coil by it's own induction could have something to do with it based on the formula (Amp = change in electrification / time). But as to why the coil produces a stronger field per watt, I don't know. All I know is it does based on the experiments of 2 others and myself.
What this means is that less power is needed to saturate a core with the lines of force.
-----------
So to properly tune a Coil for electro-magnets, the voltage to be used is also
a consideration. A coil wound for effect at 100 Khz using 10 000 volts will not
work the same if 10 volts is used due to the capacitor plate separation
(thickness of insulation or distance between turns) causing the secured self
capacitance to be less.
------------
I found a page where someone also compared field strengths of bifilar coils compared to single wire coils. They also state that the magnetic field is stronger.
------------
And I have conducted the experiment myself using the same amount of wire and the same power supply and came to a very different conclusion. I did not use nails, I used a compass. Nails are another way to go but a compass is far more accurate. You will see a gain in field strength. 1 coil with 100 turns of wire is equal to 2 coils with 50 turns of wire on the same diameter core.
------------
I've noticed something about the pancake style coil, from the spin of the magnetic force in the wires it appears that the coil fields would resemble a north/south Halbach array.   The north south Halbach increases the density  restricting the flux field to a small area.  Has anyone been able to measure if the field size and shape between the two coils differ?
------------
The geometry and the advantage of pancake types coils is one of dimensional usage, the shape of the field and the compact form.
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It is not the increase of field strength when you energize the coil with an AC,IC,OC input, it is the simple result of reduced reluctance in its inherent geometry, it acts in mutual inductance to the second winding reinforcing its magnetic component.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Every single one of the statements above has a mistake or an error in conceptual reasoning.

And that's very similar to what was taking place on this thread before I joined it and got involved in the debate.  Between myself and Gyula and others we cleared up a lot of these issues and educated people.  And that's a good thing and the more healthy debates you have on the forum, the better off we all are.

MileHigh

You just can't stop choking up this thread with junk from another forum or from your own deluded posts. We are here and not other forums.


In fact earlier on in the thread you complain about your memory and that you can not do any bench work because you don't have a bench? So how do we trust someone who a: doesn't have a bench and B: that has memory problems and lack of the ability to remember your "supposed bench work from the past"?


I have caught you in many lies and yet you persist to continue. Why? What is so important that you must diverge this thread on OU many many times. Even after people have asked you to stop?

[Magluvin]

You just can't stop choking up this thread with junk from another forum or from your own deluded posts. We are here and not other forums.


In fact earlier on in the thread you complain about your memory and that you can not do any bench work because you don't have a bench? So how do we trust someone who a: doesn't have a bench and B: that has memory problems and lack of the ability to remember your "supposed bench work from the past"?


I have caught you in many lies and yet you persist to continue. Why? What is so important that you must diverge this thread on OU many many times. Even after people have asked you to stop?

Agree 100%.  Lies about Tesla. If what MH says about the bifi is true, then why need to disgrace Tesla's name along the way? Ill say it again, he has something against people working with these coils. He even ridicules about the hours we might put into it, while he does nothing but quote the internet and other peoples YT vids.

And yeah, its always, "I cant remember" when he is found and shown to be incorrect, then the particular subject changes, then the next day the same crap. Sick of it.

Mags

[MileHigh]

Magluvin:

Well we are looking into this bifilar coil no matter what you say. You want us to just believe that the bifi coil is just a coil and a cap, an LC. Well we are looking into that to see if it is true. But you dont want that.

More Straw Man nonsense and crap from you.  Will you ever grow up?

About two months ago we discussed how to test the bifilar coil and I gave you some good sound technical suggestions for how to do some tests on your bench.  I encouraged you to test the coil.   You have the audacity to say, "but you don't want that?"  You talk junk and you know that you are talking junk and I know that you know that you are talking junk.  You have no integrity whatsoever and you lie, as shown below:

From post #288:

Magluvin:

Good luck in your investigations and I will make a few comments.
.
.
,
I suppose the question is is it worth the trouble?  Perhaps just an A-B comparison between two coils with the same number of turns, one regular, one series bifilar would be a good test.   Supposing you notice a tiny current inrush on the series bifilar when you energize it and you don't see that with regular coil.  Like I already said, there is no magic bypass for the energy it will take to energize either coil.

So this possible tiny current inrush, does it mean anything?  Can you do anything practical with it?   That's the real question.

The theme behind my posting is to try to recognize what's relevant and what's not relevant when you experiment.  That is an important basic fundamental skill worth learning.  Do you spend hours and hours doing some kind of special winding for a coil or do you spend 20 minutes and just wind an ordinary coil, or do you buy a spool of wire at the electronics store and have an "instant coil?"

MileHigh

Of course, like usual, you didn't have the courage or the character to thank me for my efforts to help you.  Just like it's happened many times before.

Ill say it again, he has something against people working with these coils. He even ridicules about the hours we might put into it, while he does nothing but quote the internet and other peoples YT vids.

More junk talk.  You are not that stupid to believe what you are saying above.  You're not!  Like I said above, I encouraged you to do your own tests.  Same thing when you try to imply I have ulterior motives like I am part of some group that wants to 'suppress' the investigation into these coils.  You are not that stupid, both about me and the coils themselves.

I have issued the challenge to you, and others, to demonstrate something "amazing and unique" about the coil.  Then you fall mute and you have nothing to offer.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Magluvin:

More Straw Man nonsense and crap from you.  Will you ever grow up?

About two months ago we discussed how to test the bifilar coil and I gave you some good sound technical suggestions for how to do some tests on your bench.  I encouraged you to test the coil.   You have the audacity to say, "but you don't want that?"  You talk junk and you know that you are talking junk and I know that you know that you are talking junk.  You have no integrity whatsoever and you lie, as shown below:

From post #288:

Of course, like usual, you didn't have the courage or the character to thank me for my efforts to help you.  Just like it's happened many times before.

More junk talk.  You are not that stupid to believe what you are saying above.  You're not!  Like I said above, I encouraged you to do your own tests.  Same thing when you try to imply I have ulterior motives like I am part of some group that wants to 'suppress' the investigation into these coils.  You are not that stupid, both about me and the coils themselves.

I have issued the challenge to you, and others, to demonstrate something "amazing and unique" about the coil.  Then you fall mute and you have nothing to offer.

MileHigh

I told you where im going with this coil. Im not done yet. My motor has 24 coils and will be wound with 42awg wire. Miles of it. Im winding 24 coils normal and 24 coils bifi to test the differences. The bifi coils, each of the 2 wires A and B, all of the A wires will be in series and all of the B wires will be in series, then All the A's in series with the B's. I explained why I will wire it that way in order to have half of the input voltage between all adjacent turns. I explained it. Maybe I have a different approach to testing these things as your tests are limited, in my opinion.  The pics of what IM doing is here...

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg364608/#msg364608

And here...

http://laserhacker.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.msg1753#msg1753

I will take my time and will not be pushed by the likes of you. You who does nothing.


"Of course, like usual, you didn't have the courage or the character to thank me for my efforts to help you.  Just like it's happened many times before."

Thats right. When have I asked for your help?  Yeah, thanks for nuthin but wasting my time. You tried to encourage me to build a fake pulse motor and that people would learn from it. There are so many out there and you want me to be involved and continue that trend, well no. I see your game. You order people to do your bidding yet wont even light an led with a battery on a bench to see if there are led's that conduct 1v forward current, as you once claimed led's do. Then you say its been 30 yrs. Then you say you are an electrical engineer. Then you say you only know as much about Tesla that you had seen in a documentary years ago, then....   Bullshit




" I have issued the challenge to you, and others, to demonstrate something "amazing and unique" about the coil.  Then you fall mute and you have nothing to offer.

Stick your challenges where you wish. Why should I have to do anything you say? I challenge you to build something. lol  Nutbag

Mags
Mags