Big try at gravity wheel

[Red_Sunset]

...............................you have made enough posts for people to see your modus operandi, .........................

PowerCat, MarkE , EnergyLibre......
You are correct, from now onwards,  I will restrict my communication to specific decently phrased questions only. I will neither respond to non-technical or business questions or statements as related to Wayne Travis and associated endeavors.

The reasons is, I am feeling myself slowly slipping into your RatHole, not a place I can identify with or would like to land up.
Red_Sunset

[Red_Sunset]

Well, it appears that unless someone is motivated enough & has the ability to build & video a robust demo 3 riser system [as per Webby] this bus will keep spinning its wheels - the data would need to show a complete cycle.

The reason I say that is because Mr Wayne claimed it was clear OU, so it must contain the basic principle of operation of any downstream devices, dual or otherwise, with or without extra plumbing.

Fetcher, Webby,....
Some clarification that can help, Webby's riser is the hardware device that makes the implementation of the asymmetric working concept possible.  By it self , the concept is a fantasy as you said before,  very true.  But so is the riser.  Together it is a different story.
Webby risers will have the ability to realize the objective of the concept in a specific controlled way as outlined by Wayne.  The concept realization has multiple physical property aspects that related to the device and working hand in hand are the ingenious input savings it allows.  The second ZED in the dual configuration plays an important savings role that can not be achieved by a stand alone ZED

The 3 stage concept approach as outlined to EnergiaLibre (and rejected by him) is the best way to approach I think.  Don't expect to find just 1 thing that gives you OverUnity, it is a combination of things as Wayne outlined in his thread. The high level asymmetry concept presented by me (also rejected by others) is high level enough to condense it into one thing,  this feathers out into multiple features as you go down range.

This is the reason, the ZED concept is somewhat complicated and difficult to understand without doing homework and due diligence, or to explain in a very simple way.  You can bring the horse to the water but you can not make him drink would be appropriate here.

Red_Sunset

[mondrasek]

So Archimedes Paradox has had me bothered when contemplating the operation of a ZED for some time.  I think I am close to a breakthrough on my mental block.  If you will consider:

Two columns of water, both 30 meters tall.  One column is in a pipe with an inner diameter of 1 meter.  The other is in a pipe with an inner diameter of 2 meters.  So the pressure of the water at the bottom of both columns is the same.  But obviously there is a greater volume of water in the pipe with the larger inner diameter.

If the pipes are filled from the bottom, does it take more work/energy to fill the pipe with the smaller or larger inner diameter?  I think it is clear that it would take more work/energy to pump the larger volume of water into the larger diameter pipe.  But on the upside of things, the work that can be performed by the water if allowed to leave the bottom of the column under pressure (and spin an electric generator via a turbine for example) is likewise greater in the pipe with the larger diameter.  Similarly, while the smaller diameter pipe takes less work/energy to fill, it can return less work/energy when draining again.  In short, the water in the smaller diameter pipe will have less PE than the water in the larger diameter pipe when both are filled to 30 meters.

The difference in PE can be shown in another way by plumbing them to a simple hydraulic cylinder as they drain.  Both pipes will cause that cylinder to begin moving with the same force which will drop to zero as the water level drops to zero, but the smaller pipe will move the hydraulic cylinder less far due to the smaller volume of water that it contains.  The integral of the force x distance (stroke of the hydraulic cylinder) is less.  This is to say the work it performs is less.  Or (stretching a bit here) the higher pressure for a shorter stroke relationship.

To get more out than in (work/energy) from a ZED I think it would need to be shown that the nested riser arrangement can produce an output integral of force x distance that is greater than the input force x distance.  Or not, of course.  One way to do that may be to fix an input pressure and volume (to simply comparisons) and then see if different proportions and layers of ZED construction will result in exactly the same output pressure/2 x stroke.  This (I think) can be calculated relatively easily.

Does this approach appear correct to anyone else?  Or incorrect for that matter?

Thanks,

M.

[Red_Sunset]

.....................................................
Does this approach appear correct to anyone else?  Or incorrect for that matter?
Thanks, M.   

Mr M,
Your logic is sound,  you established that volume is a quantification of energy (PE) so song this volume incorporates some force, derived by height, which is pressure.  This "force = height= pressure" in your example together with "volume" makes "=energy" . Both your columns have the same pressure (height) but the large one has more "energy" stored due to the volume .

Swapping volume for force (pressure) can be used to keep the energy quantity the same.  This is the same than swapping "displacement volume" for pressure, a concept that was unpopular a few days ago.
The concept behind the paradox as related to the ZED, is exactly that, to minimize the water volume but still get the same result, not with displacement volumes but with pressure.
In a basic setup, you pay for that pressure in the same way you do displacement volume.  But it allows you much more manipulation possibilities in the smart ways you can play with pressures.  This is where the layered Zed design excels.

Go back to Wayne's examples where he provided, pressure psi,  total lift area = a,  How much is the lift force ?
Don't say to quickly "psi*a",  it is not that simple for the ZED, because of the layering.  Wayne was very explicit about the non-linear behavior of the ZED lift power.    The psi*a product ratio even differs between the lower and higher psi ranges.  That control is the key, because it is reversible, which is greatly advantageous.

Mondrasek, your approach is correct, you are on the right way, 
When you follow that process deeper, do keep in mind that nature can not do it alone by itself, then it would be a symmetrical lift profile,
Technology needs to aid nature to achieve the asymmetrical objective at a discounted cost,  this means savings.

Red_Sunset

[MileHigh]

Red_Sunset:

This is where the layered Zed design excels.

It's almost comical reading you.  You fake that the Zed is real like the statement above.  You fake that some very smart people "aren't getting it" when there is nothing to get.

The Zed excels at nothing because it doesn't exist as claimed.  At best it might only exist as a prop powered by a big cylinder of compressed air.

My gut feel is telling me that Wayne's "company" is down to about three or four disillusioned individuals.  His church has long forgotten about his promise to install a ZED device.  Just like Steorn, perhaps they sit at their desks and surf the net all day feigning that they are actually doing something.

Your new burst of activity may be nothing more than an attempt to flood the thread with your silly statements alleging that the thing works because some investors might be doing some Google searching about Wayne and they will land here.  If what I suspect is actually true, then you are involved in a conspiracy.  You never know, one day law enforcement may ask the site owner for your IP address so they can track you down and take you to court along with Wayne and the remaining hangers-on.

Nothing will ever be delivered by Wayne.  It's very possible that Wayne spends his days mostly doing nothing.  All that he has to do is create the pretense that he has a company and once in a while they "stage events" for outside parties to reenforce the illusion.

What a world we live in.

MileHigh