Big try at gravity wheel

[fletcher]

Red .. no arguments in setting your parameters & assumptions for your model.

lol, my bad - I should have included the "work around" in my list to add to, though it lacks any scientific ring to it.

All joking aside, I would like to know how your new paradigm is described in physics terms - I feel a rewrite coming on.


In the mean time, I'm going to have to gazump you - I'm making like a bald man & out of here shortly for the rest of the month on business - no internet connection where I'm going either.

Present your case !

[MarkE]

MarkE,

I took the time to remind myself that I am usually wrong.

With that, I stepped back through what I have been doing and keep arriving at the same point, so the way I am using the formulas must be incorrect and that is leading me to where I am.

If you could walk me through a simple comparison I would appreciate it.

Choose the dimensions so that it is simple, and please use  10 times the height to diameter.

4 identical cylinders with the top sealed.

2 use a displacement replacement device an 2 do not.

All 4 are fully submerged and all 4 start from the same platform or depth.

The displacement replacement device is also set on this platform and does not move.

1 of each cylinder is raised 10 percent of the height of the cylinder, held firm in place and the volume available in each cylinder is filled with air.

From here I transfer the air from the raised cylinders into the lower cylinders and at this time I allow the displacement replacement cylinder to raise to accommodate the air volume.

Webby just draw a picture and apply your numbers.  Calculate the four energies:  Energy stored at the start, energy added, energy removed, and energy stored at the end when all elements of the machine have returned to the starting condition.  Once you show that sketch with your calculations, then we can easily review them together.

[fletcher]

Just to make sure we are on the same page,,

Water does not move from the accumulator INTO the ZED via the pod chamber.  The fluid in the accumulator does not mix with the fluid in the ZED's.

In the video of the ZED's in operation there is a "bag" that the water from the ZED enters into and this bag via a mechanical arm is connected to the "bag" for the second ZED and there is a hydraulic piston that helps that arm move.  This then takes the pressure from the raised ZED and allows it to communicate, via the bag and mechanical linkage, the pressure inside the pod chamber into the other bag which then moves that fluid into the lowered ZED.

The accumulator has fluid under pressure stored within it, this pressure is used to drive the piston which assists the pressure exchange and therefore the fluid input to the second ZED.

That accumulator is supplied fluid under pressure via a piston connected to the top of the risers, as they go up they take the fluid within that piston and force it into the accumulator thus replenishing the fluid volume and pressure within the accumulator.

IIRC, this was a point of confusion before, it was interpreted that the external system shared the same fluid and pressure, they do not.

Ta Webby .. my bad - I was mainly thinking of see3d's [dennis's] simplified sim model he was building of your riser & pod system - although not exactly the same mechanics as your physical model the same principles applied & he was trying to perfect it & calibrate it to your findings - I remember a comment on the HER site that that had been accomplished, IIRC.

Even if the water in the bags does not physically touch other water in the system there is still communication of force & pressure via the hydraulic rams etc, IINM - I have intermittent internet & speed so didn't watch closely the vid you talk about - did see the animation though & this is probably closer to what you are talking about now - I'll see if I grabbed a screen dump at the time & post it up if I did.

[minnie]

    Webby,
               you said the ZED would go up and down but it was a problem obtaining any
  extra energy.
       Forget excess energy, would the thng run forever if you left it going (barring
  mechanical breakdown) unloaded? If it would keep going you sure have the ou
  we're looking for.
                         John.

[MarkE]

Do you have a "formula for dummies" method??

I can do the pressure value and the volumes and stuff, but it is in the rate of change and what that means where I feel I may be making an error.

Since you already have tried to perform an analysis just show the work that you have done so far and we can go through that.