Big try at gravity wheel

[MarkE]

MarkE has identified the consequence of allowing the 2 systems to interact in the typical fashion.  I have identified the problem the 2 systems have if allowed to interact in the typical fashion.

If you can identify or observe the problem, solutions can be found.

In this case the problem is that at the point of highest stored potential on one side the other side is offering the least resistance, as the transfer happens  the stored potential is used and the resistance is growing, at the point of highest resistance there is the least stored potential.

A solution would be to not allow that condition.  The method I have brought forward would multiply the resistance by a change in volume to match the potential that is stored, then as the transfer happens that value is reversed so that the smaller stored potential can act by using a larger volume to move a smaller volume with more resistance.

As long as the typical usage is employed the system will end up with exactly what MarkE has demonstrated and no new method has been used.

Webby you already claimed that you had a way to transfer the "air" from the charged cylinder to the uncharged cylinder without losing the energy that I have proven gets lost.  Where is any evidence for your claim?  Now you retreat claiming that:  "solutions can be found".  Show us the solution you already claimed to have webby.  If you continue to refuse it will simply remain obvious that you did not understand the problem and do not have any solution.

You have not "brought forward" any method.  Show your work.  Show how you get from "air" all under the right cylinder through the point where the meniscus on the left and the meniscus on the right are at the same level without losing approximately half the stored energy.  Go ahead.  Show us cycle by cycle what happens with the transfer pump you specified.  We all wait with baited breath for you to work your way out of the corner in which you've put yourself.

[Pirate88179]

The stepped design I have already talked about comes from a servo-accumulator from an automatic transmission.

In contrast to your statements of certainty, there is nothing in the design nor nature that locks the 2 systems into a 1:1 volume transfer, only the final volumes that are moved are the same, nothing requires that those volumes are moved the same while in transit.

As stated, the transfer pump holds the volume for the other cylinder, not the first cylinder, these two volumes are separate.

Geeze, this guy sounds like my ex-wife's attorney.

If you really do understand this, and really have this system that works, why not please explain it?  This back and forth and dodging of the basic fundamental question is getting a bit tedious.

If you don't understand this, nor have something that works, just say so.  No shame in that.  If you have something that you think might work, then just say that.

Otherwise, I have only one conclusion to make, which would be the same one I made about Wayne.

Thank you,

Bill

[Pirate88179]

Thanks ?? 

I have said that I do not have a self running ZED. 

This long walk around the garden path however, yes.  Decades ago I built this device and yes it does work and no I never got it to 100 percent, as I have stated.  It came fairly close but I always needed to add in a little more than I was taking out, so I concluded that the best I would be able to do with it would be a see-saw thing and moved on.

OK, well, thank you for that.

I meant no offense about the attorney thing, she had a very good attorney and the problem was, he was not MY attorney, ha ha.

Thank you,

Bill

[minnie]

  Webby,
            thankyou  for your answer, it's been quite good hike round that garden of yours!
                          John.

[MarkE]

The stepped design I have already talked about comes from a servo-accumulator from an automatic transmission.

In contrast to your statements of certainty, there is nothing in the design nor nature that locks the 2 systems into a 1:1 volume transfer, only the final volumes that are moved are the same, nothing requires that those volumes are moved the same while in transit.

As stated, the transfer pump holds the volume for the other cylinder, not the first cylinder, these two volumes are separate.

Webby that is complete BS.  Incompressibility of the "air" and the identical dimensions of cylinder and piston locks each um of meniscus movement down in "A" to meniscus movement up in "B" until the meniscus in "B" reaches the top of the piston in "B".  No matter what machinery you use to move "air" between the cylinders in order for the "A" cylinder to go from the empty to the full condition it must pass through the condition where the meniscus is at 67.5mm, ditto for the "B" cylinder to go from full to empty.  Since the "air" is incompressible, and given the dimensions that you specified in your sketch they pass through that state at the same moment.

ETA:  Now of course you can always include storage in your transfer mechanism.  You will only end-up doing even more work, not to mention be changing your design yet again.  The fundamental problem with the inane scheme is that it shifts potential energy from one store to another while extracting a much smaller amount of work out.  In this particular machine ~7.4mJ maximum potential ends up on each side at one time or another so that ~3.9mJ of useful work can be extracted.  These machines do not capitalize on some quirk of nature to yield free energy.  Quite the opposite:  They are wasteful, inefficient contraptions.  The Minnie Teeter-Totter is instructive as are Farmhand's comments on the capacitor thread:  "Don't push stuff up hill then carry it back down again. "