Big try at gravity wheel

[MarkE]

That is what I said MarkE.

The stored anything is in the elevated GPE,,

That elevated GPE came from the input of a volume of something under pressure from some source.

The pressure that is under a 1m x 1m x 1m box of water is 9789Pa.  But the energy expended can be anywhere from 4894J used to fill that box at ground level to millions of J used to lift the box to some height.  Yet the pressure does not change.  Pressure and volume only indicate energy under special circumstances.  Work is the integral of F*ds.  Always use integral of F*ds and always get the right answer.  Use a proxy under the wrong circumstances and get the wrong answer.

In my way of thinking you are describing 2 different things, one is filling the box and the other is lifting a full box because if the box was empty it would take less work

So when I say V*P I mean the volume moved,, not what the whole volume is,, I could have a 1000 L container and it takes the same "force" to raise it up to 1000pa as a 1 L container, but if I have a movement of some total volume at 1000pa then that volume and pressure are energy aka work.

Use integral of F*ds: Always.

Pressure is nothing without a change happening,, it is only a potential and therefore useless by itself, but when that pressure acts by moving some volume of something, then work has been done.

That is utter nonsense.   Work is the integral of F*ds.  It is not pressure.  It is not pressure times the volume of an incompressible fluid.  It has the same value as 0.5*pressure*volume for the special case where a fluid is pumped into an empty vessel.

[TinselKoala]

Webby said,

The difference between us is that I see a possible functioning device and you do not, I take an approach of "how could I do that" you take an approach of "how can I fake that".

Not quite true. You left out something very very important. When I see someone present a device that appears to, or rather is claimed to, function in contradiction to all physical science and all experimentation from the past two thousand years I begin my examination from the approach that it is likely NOT to actually do what is claimed. Then I try to figure out, if I care to, how the presented effects could be produced.
Furthermore, when the presenter of such a device is engaging in rather classic "three card monty" behaviour and will not show the sausages that his wonderful sausage maker is supposed to produce.... well, we know upon which side of the teetertotter I'll put that little bit of non-evidence, don't we.

One would think you've never seen a stage magician perform. And you haven't yet said how a dual Zed system could operate if one side has a tummy ache, like the one in the video.

[TinselKoala]

Describe force.

F = mA.  The letters F and A are bolded because they are vector quantities, with both magnitude and direction.

Therefore, FORCE is that which causes ACCELERATION of a MASS.

This is not a "description", it is a Definition, in the same way that Ohm's Law defines the relationship between its three quantities Resistance, Voltage and Current.

[MarkE]

MarkE,

Here is a little homework for you.

Choose weights and distances to ease the calculations.

What is the amount of work that can be harvested.

From the final resting state after the harvest, how much work needs to be done to reset the system back to the starting postion.

How much difference is there between the harvested work and that required to reset.

This system is the same as a pressure vessel interaction.

In all cases we determine energy as the integral of F*ds.  (I will keep repeating this until it takes.)  In the case of the two weights you can't anymore get from left arm horizontal right arm vertical to left arm vertical right arm horizontal without adding energy than you can transfer the "air" between cylinders without adding energy.  Go ahead and do the experiment:  Set-up as in your drawing with the left arm pointing at 180 degrees, and the right arm pointing at 270 degrees and then let go:  The system will come to rest with the left arm pointing at 225 degrees, and the right arm pointing at 315 degrees.  You will then have to do work to get the system back to where it was, or similarly to continue on to the horizontal mirrored condition.  That means that you lost energy in the transaction.

And since this has been explained to you multiple times, and since you can easily confirm it from any of many available references it really makes me wonder why you are having such difficulty understanding this issue.

You do not need to do the math, it is more for a POV check.

And I see that you do not understand what I said,,

Pressure and volumes are calculated using surface area and distance of motion,, that is how I do it, so I use F*ds.  The added volumes are applied against a given surface area and that moves an appropriate distance by the volume added at a given pressure value.

Once again:  Pressure and volume are related to work only under the special circumstances that the work performed was used only to build head in the specific volume and only the specific volume.  Work is always the integral of F*ds.

Describe force.

I'll let the University of Georgia explain force to you:

Force

One of the foundation concepts of physics, a force may be thought of as any influence which tends to change the motion of an object. Our present understanding is that there are four fundamental forces in the universe, the gravity force, the nuclear weak force, the electromagnetic force, and the nuclear strong force in ascending order of strength. In mechanics, forces are seen as the causes of linear motion, whereas the causes of rotational motion are called torques. The action of forces in causing motion is described by Newton's Laws under ordinary conditions, although there are notable exceptions.

Forces are inherently vector quantities, requiring vector addition to combine them.

The SI unit for force is the Newton, which is defined by Newton = kg m/s2 as may be seen from Newton's second law.

You can study your pendulum problem and try and reconcile how it works statically and dynamically.

[MarkE]

Actually TK your response is my point.

I have a tendency to describe things, describe what I am thinking or playing with, you and MarkE and all the other well educated and talented people "define" things.

In order to communicate it is necessary to use the same definitions.  I don't define scientific terms.  I adhere to the published, accepted definitions.

I say force, and to me that is a description more often than it is a definition.

I apply a force and to me that means I am causing something to move or change, then I describe how or which way, close to what you would prefer but not the same as a defined interaction with strict boundaries.

You are free to define a Webby specific physics.  You are then burdened with proving that your personal physics work.  Those who use proven physics get to rest on all those very smart people who came up with the existing ideas and then rigorously tested them.  It saves a lot of work.

I see stored potential within the ZED, I do not care about "what" it is, only what I can do with it, and then what I must do to use it the way I want to.

Well if you want "stored potential" to do "work" in the sense that the entire world of industry and academia understand "work", IE the stuff that the power company bills you for when you consume it, then you will have to show that the "stored potential" is actually released energy.  Unfortunately for you, the ZED does not produce any net energy cycle to cycle.  It consumes energy cycle to cycle.