simple overbalanced wheel with flywheel

[Low-Q]

A silly question, what happens to the force gravity is making with the weight on a wheel when it is straight up??  is that reactionary force that is created any different when the wheel is rotated 90 degrees???

The force of gravity is vertical. When the weight is on the top, there is no torque in the wheel. When the wheel is turned 90 degrees the torque is at its maximum. The average torque is 70.1% of maximum during this half revolution. The torque on the other side is appearently less because the weights are closer to the hub. What one forgets is that the angle of attack of the weights is also changed in order to move the weight closer to the hub on their way up. And gravity are still working vertically - don't forget.


The angle of attack will increase the counter torque so the sum of torque due to hub distance, and the angle of attack is the same as the torque provided by the "heavier" side.


The fact that the heavier side is actually heavier with respect to the hub than the other side, does therfor not mean that the overbalanced wheel actually is overbalancing. Because the lighter side, due to the angle of attack is providing just as much counter torque as the torque in the heavy side.


When I say the gravity works vertically, I mean it works vertically no matter how the weight is going up or down. Common sense tells us that a vertical force does not change direction just because the weight is placed on a wheel. The vertical force is as I said allways vertical, so the potential energy that is stored in a weight at any hight, no matter how it gets there, is fixed to that altitude, and not depended on other weights, or cooperation from other weights for that matter.


So how on earth is it possible to extract excess energy from an object which potential energy is stored as a function of the force of gravity and its altitude? Will a wheel change this potential?

So gravity wheels cannot work in a closed loop without energy input, because they can't, OK?


I Hope this enlighten you a bit.


Vidar

[Rafael Ti]

The angle of attack will increase the counter torque so the sum of torque due to hub distance, and the angle of attack is the same as the torque provided by the "heavier" side.

And where is your math to prove it?
Do you follow some pseudo-scientists who love to repeat sentence: "...therefore the net gain equals ZERO" even without evidence?


"so the potential energy that is stored in a weight at any hight, no matter how it gets there, is fixed to that altitude, and not depended on other weights, or cooperation from other weights for that matter."  - BOLLOCKS 
According to You now we are not able to use a classic scale... as the potential energy of weight on one side of beam does not depend on the weight on opposite side.

[MileHigh]

Rafael:

Do you follow some pseudo-scientists who love to repeat sentence: "...therefore the net gain equals ZERO" even without evidence?

That might be your perspective.  From my perspective you are the pseudo-scientist and I am the scientist.

You have to supply evidence that your Bessler wheel will work, I don't have to prove that it will not work.  This "logic inversion" from over-eager enthusiasts happens all the time.  The net gain does equal zero and it has been proven because the trip down is the same length as the trip up.  We know the work in each direction is Mgh, nobody will dispute that.  h - h = 0.  That's the proof on paper.  If you do the build you will end up supplying the physical evidence to back me up.

So either you prove your point with logic, which I seriously doubt you can do, or you go and do the build and see what happens and make a YouTube clip.  Chances are you will be the 9,999th YouTube Bessler wheel builder with an attempt that does not work.

MileHigh

[Rafael Ti]

The net gain does equal zero and it has been proven because the trip down is the same length as the trip up.  We know the work in each direction is Mgh, nobody will dispute that.  h - h = 0.  That's the proof on paper.

COMPLETE BOLLOCKS 
From my perspective you are pseudo-scientist, because you don't even see that the trip up and the trip down of the weight are NOT the same lenhgt (!) - firstly. Secondly, regardless the presence of ramp, summary weight (also energy) of masses on ascending side is less than summary weght of masses on descending side due to precence of multi-leverage phenomenon.

Now we have statement of Vidar:

"The fact that the heavier side is actually heavier with respect to the hub than the other side, does therfor not mean that the overbalanced wheel actually is overbalancing. Because the lighter side, due to the angle of attack is providing just as much counter torque as the torque in the heavy side."

And this is not hypothesis, this is conclusion. He was first to mention equation here therefore I asked him: 'where is your math to prove it?'

Repeating something after someone without evidence is not a science.. is just a pseudo-science.

Dear MilleHigh.. am I a pseudo-scientist because I am asking for evidence? Don't think so. The difference between me and you guys is that you spread something that looks like conclusion without prove. I only suggest..

[MileHigh]

Rafael:

The "secret" is that the only displacement that counts for anything is the vertical displacement.  The vertical displacement down is equal to the vertical displacement up.  Therefore h - h = 0.

The burden of proof rests on your shoulders Rafael.  Simple physics is telling you that it won't work and it's up to you to prove otherwise.

I have made my points so I doubt I will post anymore on this topic.  If you believe that you are correct do you plan on doing a build of your device to prove it will work?

MileHigh