New generator patent using environment temperature to generate power

[jbignes5]

This is just as ignorant as Tesla's statement about Kelvin. You do not seem to understand that localised heating in the manner you describe is NOT a second law breach.

If you could show that effect occurring in an isothermal and adiabatically isolated environment , with no external energy supply then yes it would be so. However you conveniently neglect the supply of IR energy across the boundary in your analysis.

One last thing. As long as you don't have to supply the ir who cares where it comes from. If it is there then it is usable. As long as you don't sup[ply it then it's an advantage and is free!


A solar panel is a free energy device. We don't pay for the sun but yet we can use it. Look at a solar water heater and that is concidered as being free energy converter. Any sterling engine is also free. It can be made with scrap parts and still produce energy.

[LibreEnergia]

One last thing. As long as you don't have to supply the ir who cares where it comes from. If it is there then it is usable. As long as you don't supply it then it's an advantage and is free!


A solar panel is a free energy device. We don't pay for the sun but yet we can use it. Look at a solar water heater and that is concidered as being free energy converter. Any sterling engine is also free. It can be made with scrap parts and still produce energy.

I'm not disputing that solar energy is essentially 'free' energy. Then again so is hydro. As far as I'm aware I don't pay directly to have the sun evaporate water and deposit it on higher ground.

However I do know that my electricity bill runs about 20 cents per kwh and that  the utility generated that at around 3 cents. Also the cost of solar panels and other equipment to do it myself will be around $25,000 dollars.

By most definitions that does not count as 'completely free', so I continue pay the bill for now.

As for a sterling generator, I don't have a convenient heat source on my property above ambient temperature so that is out too.

I could set up a one of profitses 2nd law violators (even though it is not) in the form of a mirror. By concentrating solar energy I could perhaps cook a chicken or two, but only in the summer. My chickens would get a free pass in the winter though due cloudy weather, and standing out in the drizzle while it warms slowly doesn't appeal.

I'd like to find real free energy as much as the next person. However, no amount of wishful thinking about the nature of reality is going make that happen any faster.

[Magluvin]

Jbignes5:

On another thread we looked at the "series" bifilar coil patent and found noting special.  I noticed your other comments about the Tesla bifilar coil and they reflect a belief system rather than fact.

As Mark said, LibreEnergia is correct on the thermodynamics stuff.  On the electronics stuff your belief system is just that, a belief system.  You can't actually do bench experiments to confirm your statements.

Going back to the bifilar coil for electromagnets and Tesla's patent, all that the patent says is that you can make a self-resonatng coil with interwoven windings of a single conductor such that the interwoven windings create a higher voltage gradient between adjacent loops of the coil.  Using the term "bifilar" is actually a misnomer, because the coil consists of a single wire only.

Using the interwoven winding technique will give you a coil with marginally different characteristics from a similar coil that is conventionally wound, and that's about it.  The main characteristic that the two coils will share is their inductance, and that will be approximately the same.  The capacitive effects associated with the interweaving are minuscule as compared to the inductive effects.

The patent just describes the coil and it's properties, it does not mention a single practical application for the coil.  I believe that what has happened is that over enthusiasm with respect to the Tesla bifilar coil for electromagnets has resulted in a lot of wishful thinking about what you can do with it that has no basis in fact.

MileHigh

"On another thread we looked at the "series" bifilar coil patent and found noting special."

Actually, nothing special 'has been shown yet'.      That thread is not closed yet.



"Using the term "bifilar" is actually a misnomer, because the coil consists of a single wire only."

Well initially they are in fact not 1 wire. 'We' wind then with 2 wires(bi = 2) then if we decide to connect them in series then they can be considered 1 conductor from beginning to end.  You cant wind a multi layer bifi coil winding 1 wire at a time. So the name bifilar describes the way of winding the coil. Not a big deal really. But when someone says 'bifi' or 'bifilar' around here, most know what we are talking about I think we can both agree.    
If everyone would rather not call it a bifilar coil, we could call them "2 wires wound together and then connected in series coils"    Bifi is fine by me. Short and to the point.


"Using the interwoven winding technique will give you a coil with marginally different characteristics from a similar coil that is conventionally wound, and that's about it."

This is not true. We went over this, in the other thread.
Say we wind 2 coils. Both are 2 turns. One might say well, ok, 2 normal coils. But they are both bifi and each turn will have 50% of the input voltage across each turn, of which is the definition and point of the coils described in Tesla's pat.

Now we have a normal 10 turn coil and a 10 turn (total turns) bifi coil. Like you said, one basic difference if the 'bifi' is the amount of voltage between adjacent turns between the 2 coils. Well here is that difference....

We apply 10v across each coil for a numbers example. The regular coil will have 1v difference between adjacent windings, but the 'bifi' has 5v between adjacent windings.
What ever the capacitance is between each turn, same for both coils, there is a 500% difference in voltage between adjacent turns in the bifi vs the regular coil. I dont think this is a marginal difference between the 2 coils. I believe it is a 'very' noticeable difference, if one looks at the characteristics in the proper manor. Will get to that later.

500% 'difference' in voltage between adjacent turns. Now lets just go all the way and look at 2 coils of 4000 total turns, 1 regular and one bifi, wound with the same size wire obviously.

We will use just 10v again. Any voltage will produce the same difference in results.

The regular coil will have .0025v between adjacent turns and the bifi will have 5v between adjacent turns.  Thats a 2000% difference, isnt it? So its hard for me to accept someone using the word 'marginal' to describe those differences. The amount of energy stored in 'the capacitance' is quite large in the bifi compared to the regular coil no matter the value of the capacitance between adjacent turns, of which both coils are equal. But that voltage difference makes the energy stored in that bifi coils capacitance significantly higher than the regular coil.

Lets consider that as we increase the turns, we also increase the resistance. Well Lasersabers EZ motor is near 20kohm with all 12 coils in series. If there is sooo much loss due to resistances, why does his motor perform so well at 1ua from a 1000uf cap for up to an hour? And its has some actual torque. More on that later in that thread.

He has over 1000ft of 42awg wire on each bobbin. I can only guess how many turns but I venture to suggest its near 10 to 13 turns average per foot on those tiny bobbins, so nearly 10,000 turns or more each. So if the coils were bifi, 2 separate wires wound together , then we take 1 of those separate wires from all 12 coils and put just those in series, and then we do the same with the other wire of each coil, then we put those 2 series windings in series finally, what ever voltage is applied across those 12 coils, there will be 1/2 of the input voltage between adjacent turns throughout.

So approximately 120,000 turns, bifi or regular.  Laser has put up to near 100v to the input with smaller value caps(10uf), as the caps could take that voltage. So we will use 100v in the example.

The regular windings of Lasers EZ motor would have about .00083v between adjacent turns but the bifi wound motor would have 50v between every adjacent turn.

And what is the percent difference between the 2 adjacent voltages??? About 60,000% 

This is nowhere in the vicinity of marginal. Its monsterous!!  No??? 

So the more turns, the more it matters, the difference between a regular coil and a 'bifi' coil. One cannot deny this. And with wires and numbers like these, we are not talking radio freq as operating frequencies anymore.  We are in the range of pulse motors even with reeds as switching.

Just got 50,000 ft of 42awg last week. 35bucks shipped in 3days. No great expense.




" The capacitive effects associated with the interweaving are minuscule as compared to the inductive effects."

60,000% is not minuscule.  The capacitance of a regular coil becomes more and more insignificant as the number of turns increase. The 'bifi' remains the same no mater the number of turns. So its not that the bifi has more capacitance between turns than compared to a regular coil, its the fact that the regular coils capacitance effects are reduced with an increased number of turns. These are facts and not just wishful thinking.




"The patent just describes the coil and it's properties, it does not mention a single practical application for the coil."

But it does state that the more turns the better compared to a regular coil. This leaves me with the impression that it is not just related to high freq applications. The advantages will be seen soon enough.




"I believe that what has happened is that over enthusiasm with respect to the Tesla bifilar coil for electromagnets has resulted in a lot of wishful thinking about what you can do with it that has no basis in fact."

Well, I believe that if people are just experimenting with 10's , 100's or even 1000 turns bifi, the advantages are not large enough to be realized, and yes, the freq of operation is probably way beyond using reed switching.

Mags

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

Answer: Geometry is only the half of the equation. there are 2 coils in parallel in a bifilar coil. Now follow the current flow in the coils. One coil goes inwards and the other goes outwards. One current goes left and one current goes right. That is what I mean. They have an attractive force as well twords each other. You do not understand this stuff on the most fundamental level.

In the Tesla patent the two coils (or call them half-coils if you want) are in series.  If you mean "in parallel" in the sense that they are interwoven with each other and physically "in parallel" then okay.

The fact that one current goes left and the other coil goes right is irrelevant.  You seem to be implying that this is somehow significant.  Why is that?  Precisely what do you mean?  Any possible mechanical forces in the mechanically static form of a coil don't mean anything.  If you think it means something please explain.

Answer: The unusual boosting which arises in the bifilar pancake coil is an acceleration of real charges flowing in the coils. This results in boosting of the current and voltage potential.

That's a pretty vague answer.  The current will slowly increase as you energize a coil as the amount of stored energy increases.  This will be the same process in a regular coil or in a series bifilar coil (SBC).  There will be no boosting of anything and you can check this on the bench if you want.  (We decided on the term "SBC" on the other thread for the Tsela bifilar coil for electromagnets so I will use it from now on.)

For what it's worth, the whole "acceleration of charges" angle is part of the created narrative.  It's not terminology that's associated with coils.  When you think coil you should almost always think in terms of current flow.

Answer: You have no clue at all. You have demonstrated you know nothing about the true nature of the coils design or it's uses. This is evident by the Questions you posed above...

That's a tough comment and I can respond like this.  Sometimes even the simplest circuit is hard to understand when it comes to coils and the myths that surround them.  I could probably describe a ridiculously simple circuit and you might not be able to answer the simple question related to it.  It might make you question about how much you yourself know and have you thinking about doing more research.

I asked in the other thread for anybody to suggest a use or uses for the SBC coil and nobody could suggest one.  It's very possible that it was a patent that did not bear fruit.

Answer: Follow the current path an you will understand exactly what I was referring to. Really no similar processes taking place? Is there a voltage field or e-field and a magnetic field present in the coil? Did you read the ***reference material I provided to the accelerator process?***

Seriously, talking about energy entering one end of a coil and exiting the other end does not make any sense.

There is a voltage field in the coil, can you tell me what form it takes and where it is located?  Everybody knows about the magnetic filed.  We are hinting at the basic dynamics about how a coil works.  If you are going to work with coils the more you know the better off you are.

You may believe that you are making a valid point here, and your terminology all makes sense.  In fact it's making very little sense and is very difficult to respond to.

Answer: How do I make sense but not make sense? You are the one confused here.

I suggest that you reread my comment above.

nswer: Again the experiments that JLN Labs is not credible to you? Or how about the credible replication of the genegen That Woopyjump and others have done? What is emitted from induction cookers is indeed an RF signal no matter what you believe. The transmitter that Tesla was designing was indeed RF in the beginning but then changes to an impulse system that transmitted with almost zero losses even over great distances. This impulses had to be converted into real current by a process of coils to convert the impulses into a sinusoidal current that could be used by traditional ac devices.

I am not too bullish on JLN.  The fact that you are referencing Woopyjump says a lot.  Woopy is a great person and an enthusiastic experimenter, but this is just a hobby for fun for him.  You in all honesty should not be citing any of Woopy's experiments as a source of hard data.  You should be serious enough to not classify Woopy as a reliable source of experimental data.  No disrespect to Woopy at all.

I never said anything about induction cookers.  Do they use SBCs or just ordinary pancake coils?  Notice you are making a connection between SBCs and induction cookers and then assuming that SBCs are great antennas.  You are back to constructing the narrative again.  It just doesn't work like that and it's way more complicated than that.

Answer: there is no fantasy here. In fact the only one fantasizing is you about doing any real work on this design. I always work with the data I collect. I don't interpret the data in the slightest and neither have others who have done this work for real like JLN Labs and even woopyjump. There is credible work out there and ignoring this work does nothing to your own
unhealthy Thinking.

I would be pleased to have a look at your experimental clips when you put them up and take it from there.  If you are going to do clips where you make claims about SBCs then you will need to have a similar regular coil for comparison tests.  You are going to be surprised when you see very similar or nearly identical performance from both of them for some standard tests.  I suppose that you could say that "credible work" is in the eye of the beholder.  The more information that you have to work with the more you can evaluate clips for their content.

MileHigh

[profitis]

@libre,the walls of the isothermal thought-box and evrything in it are the emitters and receivers of the ambient infrared,thers no need to do the experiment as it even works in thought...