Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal

[ramset]

dragon has shared some very interesting comments about his 15 year journey investigating
"Energy from The ground"
post #339 from here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details-12.html

dragon
Quote
BroMikey, Your battery information is great for those starting out, learning to calculate power needs is extremely important when you want to convert to off grid living - knowing your power needs for various loads can be an eye opener when your trying to reduce your bill.

I've been running my home on a battery storage system for over 15 years now. I have several inverters ( approximately 6000 watts of total capacity) carrying the loads with a small 1400 Ah battery bank. I'm not completely off grid as I can't run any of my 220 volt loads as yet. With the introduction of the newer pure sinewave stuff I can now convert my several smaller inverters to a split phase 220 unit that will replace the grid line to my main box, grid becomes a back up at that point. This system runs my home 24/7.

The input to this system is 1500 watts of solar, 1000 watt wind as well as a few different alternatives which I've built. My consumption is generally around 7-10kwh per day average. It can be quite challenging at times to become your own power station but the rewards are many.

I believe my goals are very similar to those that visit these forums so we are all looking for one simple thing - The plain simple truth, nothing more.

If Clarence is on the level and he has achieved the holy grail then I applaud him, bow to him and build it... but... if he's being deceptive in any way it benefits no one. The same investment could provide me with another 1500 watts of guaranteed power - all I have to do is install it.

I do all my own work, most of the schematics I've posted have never been seen before, I post nothing that I haven't tested and proven myself unless I state that it is a conceptual design outright. You have to admit that these forums are packed full of deception, not always in a bad way but what ever the motivation people spend hard earned money in an attempt to achieve some magical end only to find out it was just a pile of hooey from someone that wanted some attention, money or what ever.

I tend to be blunt and factual as I see it... if I'm wrong I'll be the first to humble myself and apologize. I am extremely open minded and will build anything given I have a reasonable belief that it is "truth".

I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.

So the moral is, see things for what they are - then look at things not necessarily for what they were intended but for what they could be.

Like or disllike me for what ever reason makes no difference - I will continue searching for truth while picking up the bread crumbs along the way. There are a lot of good things gained from any journey...
end quote

[MileHigh]

Chet:

I commend Dragon and Level, there are certainly some good comments on the EF thread that are giving the discussion some balance.  Ultimately that's good for everyone all around.

One thing Dragon is not mentioning is the return on investment (ROI) for his solar/wind/battery system.  That is a huge hole in his description of his setup.  It sounds quite expensive to me.  I am not sure if the prices for solar panels and electronics are still falling.  If the ROI is 10-15 years, then I think lots of people could stomach that.  However, if it's 40 years, then probably most people would prefer to pay their monthly electric bill.  Only if you are very idealistic would you convert to solar/wind if the ROI is 40 years.

Sometimes I admire your "Henry Kissinger" shuttle diplomacy, jumping across forums.  Sometimes you are just as frustrating as Cangas where you can't answer a straight question, or you will blindly give the benefit of the doubt to the extreme, or you play the ignore game.

Your posting is a "plant" because I jabbed Cangas for refusing to answer a straight question.  It's pretty transparent.  I know you always want to mean well.

But look at yourself, sometimes you are just a scared chicken like many others around here.  You have been popping back and forth between OU and EF for various reasons.  I asked you to ask Clarence where you are supposed to put the multimeter probes based on Clarence's own description for making measurements.  You chickened out.

Why, what do you have to lose?   Or is it that you are uncomfortable about putting Clarence on the spot because you are thinking excatly the same thing as me:  Clarence will balk when you ask him where you are supposed to make the voltage measurements based on his own description.

Don't you think that's crazy when you step away and have a bird's eye view?  Clarence, the guy making proposition talks about making some voltage measurements.  Everybody on EF is seemingly too chicken to ask him where to put the bloody probes, I raise the issue, no response, so I ask you to do it as part of one of your Kissinger shuttle diplomacy missions and you ignore the request.

Believe me, you are not helping the situation at all.  Level has made the same types of observations as me.  Clarence is not technical at all, and he is making a highly technical pitch.  Clarence makes an incomplete technical statement about voltage measurements, and I ask you to follow up to get the complete picture and you refuse.   Not only you of course, there are many reading along that could just as easily have done the same thing.

There is something wrong with that picture.  Seeing Clarence balk (presumably) when asked where to make his own quoted voltage measurements may wake BroMikey up out of his "state."  More importantly, it may result in Totoalas reassessing his willingness to go out and spend a considerable amount of money and time and travel chasing Clarence's pipe dream.

Does that compute in your head, Chet?  What's more important, Clarence's "trip" or Totoalas' financial and time decisions about this project vis a vis his family?  I know nothing about Totoalas' situation, but I think he is in eastern Asia.  That means he may be talking about committing a full year's worth of disposable income to do this project.

What is the right thing to do?  Keep Clarence stroked or at least let Totoalas get more information to help him (and others) decide?

Some guy is suggesting a project that is going to take considerable time, money, and physical effort and when somebody asks him where to make some voltage measurements he balks.  That might give even the most ardent supporter second thoughts, don't you think?

Of course the honeymoon for Clarence on EF is over and has been over for several days now.  But seemingly not for Totoalas, and certainly not for BroMikey.

For all of you:  If Clarence (presumably) can't even tell you where to put the multimeter probes for voltage measurements that he himself discussed (not me!) then what the hell does that say about him, and his project?

There are personal integrity and moral and financial issues for ALL of you to consider in a case like this.  Who the f*ck are you really if you stand by and look at craziness take place without saying anything and people can be hurt?  You know those horrible clips you can see online where someone gets hit by a car and people walk by and do nothing?  Someone could be bleeding to death and they die, but they could have lived if you just stopped and put pressure on their wound while someone called 911.

You Chet, and all of you have things to think about.  In some ways this is a little microcosm of life.  Are you a little bunch of frozen programmed robots afraid of your own shadows, or do you have the guts to think for yourselves?

Do you just blankly look at a neutral wire wrapped around the captor secondary and for the 500th time see another project that contains something that is electrically totally stupid and say nothing because you are "pro free energy?"

Like WTF boys?   (rant off)

[a.king21]

None of us are meek.  Some of us quote books, others do experiments.
I prefer to listen to the experimenters, because I already have the books to refer to.


So, when someone spends 2,000 USD of their own money, I like most decent folk,
want to see how it plays out.  If the experimenter is a bit over optimistic and sensitive
I cut him some slack. Any information which can be replicated  is good science.
In Edison's autobiography he states  he was told bamboo cane will never be a good filament.
Bamboo cane cannot conduct electricity. Everyone knows that. It's in the book. 
The rest is history.


The truest thing I read in an advanced level physics book was this, "Here is one of the few experiments
which agrees with theory in the entire book."


Experiment triumphs over theory EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[MileHigh]

Experiment triumphs over theory EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Not necessarily.  If you experiment but you don't truly know what you are doing then in the majority of cases it's just a garbage-in-garbage-out situation.   Especially if the experiment when viewed objectively makes no sense.

Case in point:  Almost all Bedini motor experiments are junk.

All that you are really doing is showing an "experimenter's bias" that is particular to these types of forums.  It's the blind belief that you are actually accomplishing something when in fact you are mostly fooling yourself.  It's used as a crutch to in effect not really and truly learn.  You can pretend that you are "learning" by doing mundane "experiments."

It may be harsh to say that but it's true.

[MileHigh]

Where I can agree with you is with respect to Clarence.

A perfectly valid experiment would be for Clarence to connect up a 100-watt incandescent light bulb to the inverter output and then just monitor the system and "take vital signs."

The claim is a free energy system, so let it run indefinitely.  Let's be reasonable and say let it run continuously for a week.  If the vital signs are still good after a week then keep running the test for a month non stop.

That is Clarence's real no-brainer experiment.

I am going to guess a car battery can put put out 100 watts for something like one day.  I am too tired to crunch any numbers.

But Clarence won't do that ridiculously simple experiment.  So who is chicken here?