Tinman's Rotary Transformer

[PiCéd]

Hello gotoluc!

A diode and a capacitor in parallel to the input (or maybe output) circuit and connect to the two end of the solenoid, your video is old but had a very good suggestion and a very good idea, especially that of putting a diode.

[woopy]

Hi Woopy
  What do you need to know? Perhaps I can help?

Looks like you have a nice little motor for testing...

Regards
Tim

Thank's Tim

today i spent some time playing with my motor and diode and more.

And by doing this, I have read the Tin man's blog (i didn't know about before )  and also this thread, and i have a better clue now.

I can get the acceleration and much better torque by shorting the stator coils with diode (i used super fast diode UF 4007 )

I have tried to connect the 2 stators coils in serie and parallel  and also separated with 2 diodes everything works fine.

I have tried to understand if there is a attraction or repulsion motor. And it seems to me that there is a repulsion motor. And further more . the torque seems to appears when the slot ,between 2 commutator's  sections, is situated in the middle of the brushes.

Something interesting is that the motor, when connected to a DC power supply .  spins always the same direction independantly of connected the polarity. ??

Voila for my first entry in this experiment

good luck at all

Laurent

[Magluvin]

Could you please indicate how the poles on the magnets are. Without that I'm not sure of how this works

Thanks

Luc

Hey Luc

In the pic I posted, the blue magnet is really a ring. The cutaway view is of round parts, where yours would be square with 4 sides.  The magnet is one pole inward toward the coil and the outer surface is the other pole, facing the outer core part. It is the same as what you have, only open ended.  You can try yours open ended by just replacing all the mags on one end of your device with non magnetic blocks, plastic, wood, etc.

Its not the fact that the 2 N poles at each end interact directly with the coil. The N of both mags is applied to the coil through and out of the outer core parts, and the center slider core 'is' the S pole in reference to the coil.

Here is an experiment you might enjoy.  If you have a home stereo amp, connect a speaker wire to the coil like it was a speaker. The way you use the straps to connect the scale, replace that with rubber bands, only use a rubber band for the other side also, so the the coil wants to rest at or near center of the slider. Now turn up the volume using some music with some bass. Something that will get that coil 'vibrating' back and forth.  You say the coil is around 100ohm. The stereo should handle that load fine. Being that it is 100ohm, you might have to pump up the volume a bit, not sure.  In the end, you will see that it is basically a speaker motor.

When I said above that the inner core 'is' one pole and the outer core 'is' the other pole in reference to the coil, I wasnt kidding.     The coil is not working with or against poles that are at the ends of the device, it is working with(and or against) magnetic field that is concentrated through the coil windings from the inner core to the outer. So just about no matter where the coil is on the slider, you should be getting as much pull force as if it were anywhere else on the slider. There may be a bit thicker field closer to the magnets. In a speaker, the cone excursions are typically 1inch front to back, with some subwoofers(extreme) up to 3inch throw. So possibly the longer the device, the more that fields closer to the magnets, as you have them, will be stronger than in the middle.  Thats why the magnet in the pic I posted was used as it is, because the coil is always next to the actual magnet pole facing inward and the core redirects the other pole to the inner side of the coil. So the field lines you are working with are strung between the inner and outer core and the coil is bathed in it from the inside outward between inner and outer cores.


These motors are much different in their workings than what we think about how motors work. Once you catch on, it will make you think differently a bit.  But then again, Once you get it, you might think differently about what you thought about typical motors and find it is all the same and what you thought before was all wrong.  And thats a good thing.

Below is a cutaway view of a speaker and its motor. The cone suspension is the 'rubber bands' and the large ring magnets, grey, are say N up and S down, and the yellow core parts take the magnets fields and concentrate them on the coil. The N field is guided to the outside of the coil and the S is guided to the inner side of the coil.  Hope that helps.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Hmm, I wonder if Tinmans motor could run another Tinman motor on the first ones stator output? Just a thought. Then a third off of the second?

Mags

[tinman]

I agree with TinMan!...  I also fail to see how his design would work with permanent magnets.

Even if the magnets are on the rotor! 

The way I think TinMan's design works is it takes advantage of the off time of the rotor coil which would of induced a magnetic field in the stator core when on.
But once the rotor coil comes to a zero volt from the pulsed DC, the induced field in the stator will want to collapse and reverse which would cause a braking effect on the rotor. However, since TinMan has made as large of a coil he can fit on the stator, the stator magnetic field can be stored in that coil.
However, it will do nothing if the coil is open! ... but add a diode (in the right direction) on the stator coil and instead of the stator core field reversing when the rotor coil field comes to zero (from DC pulses) the diode will redirect the stored magnetic field in the stator coil to go in the same direction it was originally going and the result will be the rotor will continue on its way instead of it being stalled by the reversing collapsing field.

So maybe we can say there is No opposing Lenz if you want. It's just redirected and reused during the off time.

If this is TinMan's working principal, then permanent magnets on the rotor would not work as they can't be switched on and off.

I shared this concept (in a different way) 4 years ago. I called it "Effects of Recirculating BEMF to coil" where I demonstrated that a short pulse to a coil would push a magnet so far and if I added a diode (in the correct direction) the coil would need much less power to push the magnet the same distance.

Here's a video of the effect and advantage of recirculating a coils collapsing field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QUYkilgkzU

What I think TinMan is doing is using the same effect but using the stator flux stored in the stator coil and redirecting it which will have a benefit on the already set motion of the rotor. This is very smart of TimMan to do.
One can add a load (resistor) on the stator coil but for obvious reasons the best results will be with the lowest resistance or just a short.

Luc

Correct Luc
A PM on the rotor will only give you a PM generator-nothing more.Even by using the diode,you still have a PM generator that is only catching a half wave AC from the stator coil. You need to be able to switch the field off on the rotor-at the right time. Then the more load you place on the colapsing stator field,the stronger the EMF from that stator is. This is why the more load you place on the output,the more torque you get from the motor action of the RT.