Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.

[gyulasun]

Hi Conrad,

Yes, what you found in the link as a measurement method is known as a double frequency method to get a coil's self capacitance. I agree that at the very low frequencies involved in connection with the rotating magnets, the physical sizes and number of turns used for the bifilar coils define coil capacitances which still very low values to give resonance with the coil's inductance at or near the frequencies what the rotating speed of the magnets represent, unfortunately.     

Here is a calculator for the double frequency measurement method, to ease the calculating process, hopefully it would give correct results versus your own calculations as per the formula included in your link (I did not check it): http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/inductors.html

Notice: In the link you found, the scope probe connected in parallel with the coil to be measured adds its own probe capacitance to the coil (it actually reduces the original coil resonance what the parasitic capacitance would originally define) and it is suggested that you substract the probe capacitance from the calculated value to get the actual parasitic cap for the coil.
It is okay that you will be able to measure your probe's input capacitance by your LCR meter and then substract it but perhaps you may wish to use a simply pick-up coil of a few turns to couple to your coil to be measured and watch the resonant voltage amplitudes on your scope. This way the unwanted extra capacitance from the measurement setup can be kept at a minimum (first you use a strong close coupling to ease the seaching for the resonance then you place further away the pick-up coil when you found resonance).
Here is a link http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/appendix/self_res/photo/18t_Xe_1389_srf.jpg where a few turn pick-up coil is shown, albeit it is just used as a transmitting loop to excite the multiturn solenoid, it does work as a receiver antenna loop of course, the diameter of such pick-up loops could approach that of the coils to be measured and the number of turns (say 3 to 5) are not critical. You can connect the output of this pick-up coil directly to your scope input via a short (say 50cm long) piece of coax cable or say via a 1:1 scope probe. (the picture above belongs to this website: http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/appendix/self_res/gallery.html )

Your BK-879B meter is able to measure Z impedance too, perhaps this feature (together with the selectable measurement frequency feature) opens some other ways to estimate parasitic capacitance of coils, just a food for thought for others reading this too.

Greetings
Gyula

[synchro1]

@Tinselkoala and Milehigh,


Quote from Dave at Yahoo:

"The bifilar does not magnify the current.  The current follows Ohm's law and nothing special happens with it.  

I worked out the math a little more and I was wrong about increased current causing increased magnetic flux.  The magnetic flux will tend to decrease with the potential.  What actually increases is the magnetic field strength.  The magnetic field strength has a different set of dimensions than magnetic flux or magnetic field.  I'm not yet certain how to visualize magnetic field strength, but I will give it more attention.  

I'm aware of Tesla's claim about the increase in energy.  Energy is often thought of as the ability to do work.  And indeed, bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh.  But the work is in grabbing more metal per pickup.  It is questionable whether there is free energy here of just better efficiency.  At this time, I think the latter.

I've read accounts where guys found other geometrical considerations that further increase the magnetic field strength per pound of wire and for the same kwh.  But they didn't share the method.

Increased magnetic field strength occurs even though the magnetic flux likely decreases.  So it would take a different method than usual to get any kickback effect, which in turn would produce more potential.  There's room for experimentation here.  It won't be the usual transformer through turns ratio.  The inductance also decreases substantially in a bifilar coil.  You've got to stay focused on magnetic field strength if you're going to capitalize on any unique properties.

BTW, I found that flat spiral bifilars are pretty strong.  I haven't compared the flat spiral bifilar to a solenoid bifilar on a pound per pound of wire basis, though.  That's something I need to do.  That might be one of the tricks used by the guys at scrap yards for winding their coils".

[synchro1]

I think it's time to redirect everyone's attention to the topic of this thread; I witnessed unexplained hyper acceleration of a diametric magnet rotor up to 50k rpm's with a reed switch attached to the face of a thread spool series bifilar coil.

I choose to use this bifilar wrap for specific reasons as an output coil too, after spending sufficient time researching it's characteristics. Dave in the quote above states that the magnetic flux decreases while the magnetic field strength increases in the coil. Magnetic flux is measured in Webers and field strength in Teslas.

I noticed that while under power, the diametric flux field from the spinning rotor increases, while the attraction to the magnet rotor decreases. Dave says the same kind of inverse relationship holds true for the Tesla bifilar under power! These are very important inter relationships, and have a bearing on both the unexplained acceleration and output effects this thread currently has under testing and exploration.

The power portion of my precision ceramic bearing alternator ran cost free and cold, as I maintained , with no input power whatsoever detectable by me on my amp meter at top end! The output portion of the alternator use's  the same bifilar coil and exhibits the performance I already detailed in the thread. let me restate that it's the same bifilar coil's awesome performance on the power side that I initiated this thread to help explain.

Re-quote from Dave about the Tesla series bifilar:

"The magnetic flux will tend to decrease with the potential.  What actually increases is the magnetic field strength".

The inverse flux field to magnetic strength relationship of this coil is a critical factor in understanding it's anomalous effects. This is what I have been able to deduce so far: The Tesla series bifilar power coil  looses magnetic flux and gains magnetic strength as it powers up, while the diametric magnet rotor apparently works just the opposite, loosing magnetic strength and increasing it's magnetic flux field as it accelerates.


Following the assumption that the Tesla series bifilar is somehow producing extra magnetic strength per watt, one can envision why the magnet rotor would begin to run away under it's own steam. The magnet flux from the accelerating rotor begins feeding the magnet strength of the coil at a greater then 1:1 ratio. This causes the series bifilar coil to manufacture more magnetic field strength then the magnet rotor had standing still. Up around 25 or 30 thousand r.p.m, the accrued force takes over and accelerates the magnet rotor with hyper velocity. It takes a few minutes to build up to 25k, then the rotor hits 50k in a matter of seconds. Physical constraints limit the upward speed.


Tinselkoala questioned me about my ratio comparison of negative micro henries and decreased inductance in Tesla's serial bifilar coil. I hope this will help him better understand the dynamics behind my description


     

[synchro1]

@Tinselkoala,

You produced a video comparing the flat spiiral coil to the the Tesla Pancake. Both coils were attached to the same plexiglass frame. The experiment we need for you to perform is to determine which coil has more magnetic field strength by picking up iron filings on each end with same power, and weighing them to see if they pick up the same amount of filings in weight or if one side picks up more then the other. Would you be willing to perform this experiment for us please?

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

It's the holiday season so it's taking my postings a while to appear.  The "hyper acceleration" is explainable if you are good with a set of scope probes.  Constructing a timing diagram would be a big help also.

"The magnetic flux will tend to decrease with the potential.  What actually increases is the magnetic field strength".

That's pretty much a nonsensical statement that you quoted.  There is a "coil understanding gap" somewhat akin to a generation gap.  I don't have a solution for that.

You should try to grock this:  A coil is like a flywheel where the voltage corresponds to the torque and the current corresponds to the angular velocity.  The size of the coil is like the size of the flywheel.

In most cases for a coil you actually don't even have to think about the magnetic field which may be a shocker.  The only things that you have to worry about are the inductance, the voltage, and the current.  When is the last time you saw somebody worried about the electric field inside a capacitor?

You can try to grock this:   Think of a big fire hose that is formed into what looks like a big electrical coil that's 10 feet in diameter and has 200 turns.  Imagine a high rate of water flow through the hose.  So you are looking at what effectively is a big cylinder of circulating (looks like rotating) water.  It might be a ton of water in motion that is inside the coiled hose.  Can you envision what would happen if you suddenly closed the exit valve of the hose?  Can you see a resemblance to a coil there?  Hint:  Water flow rate is like current and water pressure is like voltage.

MileHigh