Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped

[vince]

That picture was from me trying inventacom's claim that a small auto radiator fan motor could power a generator and be looped back. His claim was that a small motor could power a larger load by using a gearbox to increase torque, then a second drive to increase speed. Well it did power the load but there was no way it would loop back and power the prime mover.  We followed his postings on a private forum and kept waiting for his input into our experiments only to find out he was fooling us all and that he had a questionable background. Ask e2matrix about this guy.

In any case I tried a multitude of motor generator combinations with different gearboxes and drives to no avail. Everytime I threw the switch to loop the voltage degraded so quickly that there was no way to self power. I gave up before trying to loop back thru a battery when we found out about inventacom"s past.

Vince

[tim123]

Indeed

Hi TM, hope you're well...
  do you have, lying around the 'shop, a flywheel, bearings, a few pulleys etc? You are one of the most practical folk around here, and it'd certainly be more fun than watching TV... Even 'Christmas' TV...

I'm planning to set up a generator test-bench - for testing some DC motors I bought as generators for wind turbines. Just for fun... But the winter's slowing play... I'm planning on making a flywheel + variable ratio pulleys to act as the 'gearbox' between motor & generator.

Don't you think a motor / generator test-rig is just exactly what you need anyway?

I'm also planning to make my own variable voltage & frequency drive - using a center-tapped site transformer, some DC  SSRs, capacitor switchbox, and a square wave gen... For running a 3 phase drive motor (& other fun).

The thing is about all this is that all generator manufacturers * test their products *. They give efficiency ratings etc... So the idea you can just hook these things together seems crazy...

Maybe this QMoGen stuff is all a case of: "Make the lie big enough, and repeat it often enough, and people will believe it"...? Maybe it isn't... I just don't know...

Regards, Tim

[tim123]

...I tried a multitude of motor generator combinations with different gearboxes and drives to no avail. Everytime I threw the switch to loop the voltage degraded so quickly that there was no way to self power...
Vince

Hi Vince
  thank you for your valuable input...

So you have actually had some hands-on experience... Would you be able to elaborate on the types of motors and generators you tried please? It would help a lot to get some actual specs...

As I said, I tried a rotoverter-gen, and it was about 60% efficient...

Regards, Tim

[FatBird]

If I were going to build a Motor Generator, I would seriously consider a
weight lifter weight, rather than an automotive flywheel.  They come in
several weights and sizes.  Plus they already have a standardized shaft
hole in the center to fit popular bearing sizes.

                                                                                                           .

[vince]

Hi Tim

It was quite a while ago that I tried those tests. They were very frustrating!! I used
Auto fan motor to treadmill motor for generator with many gearbox and belt pulley combinations.
AC /DC universal motor with treadmill motor generator
Auto fan motor with 1hp induction motor as generator with capacitors for field excitation
Auto fan motor with 2hp induction motor as generator with capacitors for field excitation
1/2hp induction motor with 2 hp induction motor as generator
1\2 hp induction motor with 3000watt generator head
More combinations but I can't remember them all.
I have many cast iron sheaves that I used for flywheels including several large 14 inch double groove sheaves.
In many of these tests the units made considerable power, however whenever you tried to loop them back they always immediately loaded up the prime mover and voltage dropped like a stone. Even the flywheels made no difference other than a little longer run down.

I don't know about all these claims of self running machines but I do know that in my tests there is no way to run themselves if built to just send back power to the prime mover, capacitors or not.  If there is anything to these claims there has to be something in between the motor and generator to compensate for loss of power on switchover.  I was hoping that Gotoluc was onto something regarding this subject in his thread on reactive power. I have been following that and if he can get enough power out of his circuit without loading the motor it might be a step in the right direction towards self powering.  I once read somewhere that  in one of these motor/generators the magic was in a voltage stabilizer called a "stay-volt".  That may be a bunch of BS but I do know that without some kind of circuitry between the motor and generator you are just wasting your time.

As a side note: Do you remember the you tube video of that guy loopng a motor generator with a high power water pump and a pelton wheel on the generator.  Well I know everyone thought it was bunk but think about it for a second. When that machine was running at full pump pressure it was drawing x amps. If it was able to turn the pelton wheel at the required rpm to generate required power to run a specific load then any additional load or even a stall on the pelton wheel would not cause any more draw on the motor other than the x amps. That motor only sees the load of the pump. What happens to the water after it leaves the pump makes no difference on the motor. It still sees the pump as the load. A slow down of the pelton wheel does not reflect back on the motor and it continues to draw the same amps.  Makes you stop and think.  Maybe there was something to his demonstration.



Vince