Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped

[tim123]

The fact a vortex does work on a  ball rolling down to the exit can be shown with an equvalent, abeit vastly more complicated system.
...

Hi Grimer,
  you can buy a toy called 'SpaceRail' in the UK - it lets you set up a ball track similar to what you describe... For far less than your £2000.

I bought one a few years ago to try, I think, exactly what you are suggesting. It was an interesting experiment.

Regards, Tim

[TinselKoala]

Here you go, Frank.

http://www.spiralwishingwells.com/guide/physics.html
http://www.spiralwishingwells.com/toy/prices.html

"Al" says you can send him the 2000 pounds by Western Union. He'll PM you the address details.

[Grimer]

Very interesting.


I didn't see anywhere it mentioned the speed of the coins exiting the cone at the bottom.


Did I miss something?

[Grimer]

Hi Grimer,
  you can buy a toy called 'SpaceRail' in the UK - it lets you set up a ball track similar to what you describe... For far less than your £2000.

I bought one a few years ago to try, I think, exactly what you are suggesting. It was an interesting experiment.

Regards, Tim

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=SpaceRail&safe=off&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=pk8iImpiH2vwZM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQI0TOQMXTCwks2p_Yos33BR4bojmNA7nk2fGBAiBlIFZOqQ2ff%253B580%253B382%253BnYxv5sonhZ-80M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fblog.tboox.com%25252F2010%25252F11%25252Fspacerail-steel-ball-roller-coaster-kit%25252F&sa=X&ei=RYbNUsuJH4rH7Aalg4CQCg&ved=0CHIQ9QEwBQ&biw=1536&bih=757#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=pk8iImpiH2vwZM%3A%3BnYxv5sonhZ-80M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fblog.tboox.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2010%252F11%252Fspacerail01.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fblog.tboox.com%252F2010%252F11%252Fspacerail-steel-ball-roller-coaster-kit%252F%3B580%3B382


Yes. My son-in-law was bought one for Christmas.


However as far as I can see from that above link none of them have a vortex shape with a Paternoster lift driven by the action of the balls.


If you have a ballet dancer with metal balls in her hands on a platform at the top of a pole which can be pulled up and down - and as the pole goes down she pulls her arms in along a vortex path then she is putting energy into the weights. That energy to pull the weights in comes from her, not gravity. The two energies are distinct.


If the balls are released from the cone and taken up by a lift then this extra energy can be used to overcome the inevitable losses of the system. The gravitational energy will take them up by the lift and then they can roll down the cone again and get another ration of 3rd derivative energy.


The trick is in recognising that the hoop stresses induced in the cone are pushing the balls towards the vortex axis. Push is the inverse of Pull.


If in the Carnot cycle you send a gas back up the same isothermal path as it came down then you won't get any power out of it. You have to introduce adiabatic legs and send it back up a different path. It's a bit like the two staircases in a lord's house. The food goes up the posh one and the empties go back down the servant's one.


I'm really surprised that TK can't see this.


Thanks for your reply, Tim.

[tim123]

Grimer,
It's possible that the OU potential of the 2 things you've mentioned are linked:
- 'jerk' or 3rd derivative
- vortex motion

Natural (irrotational) vortexes accelerate towards the center. The large rates of change could exceed the 'critical action time' of the 'system', and bring in environmental energy, according to Davis & Stine type reasoning...

It could work better with charged particles, because their parallel motion in the vortex creates a magnetic field - which brings them together - maybe adding potential energy for free...

How does this relate to the topic though? I have no idea.