Forceless Magnetic Flux

[vineet_kiran]

 
A try to get magnetic flux without force.

[gyulasun]

Hi Vineet,

Interesting setup, have not seen it elsewhere.

You have not mentioned the presence of the South pole of the coil the AC input current also creates whenever it creates the North pole: I imagine this effect would cause a mechanical 'trembling' in both the coil and the magnets due to the continuous change of the coil poles as the AC frequency dictates. I am not saying this is bad, just trying to compare this situation to the case of a normally operating mains transformer core which you approach with a permanent magnet in your hand: the changing stray flux near the core makes the magnet 'trembling' (the AC flux would both attract and repel  equally it with 50 or 60Hz speed) and you would feel the 'inertia' of the magnet body with your fingers.

Of course the 'trembling' would not be felt in your setup (like in my hand held magnet example) if all the magnets and the coil were fixed firmly. I know my example is not fully correct for comparison because BOTH the flux of the mains transformer core and the permanent magnet have two poles (of which the core flux is the one which is changing) while in your setup the flux of the permanent magnets maintains a single polarity pole and the coil gives the flux with the changing poles.

So your setup is: a coil is excited by an AC current and inserted into a strong static magnetic field of a monopole polarity, in the moment when one side or part of the coil happens to be a North pole, the permanent magnets' North pole flux surely strengthten the North part of the coil flux, and when the other side or part of the coil in that same moment would have the South pole from the AC input, the permanent magnets' flux would weaken or maybe 'neutralize' the South part of the coil flux. And in the next moment as the AC current changes direction the coil poles also change and the flux interaction process happens again but in the opposite direction.

You mention some sort of super induction, I wonder how it could manifest as an advantage. It is okay that the monopole (North in your drawing) flux field from the magnets would jump to the appearing South pole of the coil and then jump again to the other part of the coil as the coil pole would change as per the AC input: this 'jumping' is the flux change to cause induction BUT whether this induction is better than a 'normal' Faraday induction or not I cannot tell, maybe I totally omit considering something important. Perhaps I do not get fully the advantage of what you term as magnetic flux without force. Tests should be conducted to see this.

Greetings,  Gyula

[vineet_kiran]

So your setup is: a coil is excited by an AC current and inserted into a strong static magnetic field of a monopole polarity, in the moment when one side or part of the coil happens to be a North pole, the permanent magnets' North pole flux surely strengthten the North part of the coil flux, and when the other side or part of the coil in that same moment would have the South pole from the AC input, the permanent magnets' flux would weaken or maybe 'neutralize' the South part of the coil flux. And in the next moment as the AC current changes direction the coil poles also change and the flux interaction process happens again but in the opposite direction.

@gyulasun,


I understand your explanation.  But the above process happens only when north pole of a magnet  is tightly bonded with south pole which we studied in schools as imaginary lines of force starting from north pole and ending in south pole.  Suppose if we break these lines of force and prevent them from going to opposite pole,  then the flux (lines of force) should oscillate corresponding to the change in magnetic field in AC coil. 

Instead of a permanent magnet if you bring a iron plate near a AC coil,  it will not tremble but it provides opposite pole corresponding to the changes in poles  produced by the coil.  I expect something similar to happen in the above setup. When coil produces north pole it should twist or rotate forceless flux to suit to its direction.  ie., when flux is N-S in the coil,  it should align the forceless flux in S-N direction.  Infact north and south poles exist at all points in a magnetic field and monopole doesnot exist.

Just compare this with a ship sail fastened tightly at top and bottom.  When wind blows,  sail experiences force which it transfers to the ship and ship moves forward.  Suppose if you detach the fastening of sail at the bottom,  the sail becomes a flag and when wind blows,  it simply waves freely in air without taking any force from wind and ship will not move forward. 

In any case I am not sure about the experiment.  It is just a wild guess!


Regards,

Vineet.K.

[Newton II]

... But the above process happens only when north pole of a magnet  is tightly bonded with south pole which we studied in schools as imaginary lines of force starting from north pole and ending in south pole.  Suppose if we break these lines of force and prevent them from going to opposite pole,  then the flux (lines of force) should oscillate corresponding to the change in magnetic field in AC coil. 

I don't know whether that explanation is funny or interesting.  Is there any analogy between properties of matter and field?     Matter usually  consists of  bonded electrons which donot take part in any chemical and electrical reactions (innermost electrons)  valence elctrons which take part in chemical reactions( electrons in outer orbits)  and free electrons which take part in electrical reactions (conduction).

Just like that is there anything like bonded flux which donot react with AC wave,  valance flux (don't know  what it does) and  'free flux'  (forceless flux as said by V_K)  which reacts with AC wave?

Does this video posted by TK in tinman's thead show the presence of 'free flux' in a strong magnetic field?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJFuKvrUEs

[TinselKoala]

But the above process happens only when north pole of a magnet  is tightly bonded with south pole which we studied in schools as imaginary lines of force starting from north pole and ending in south pole.  Suppose if we break these lines of force and prevent them from going to opposite pole,  then the flux (lines of force) should oscillate corresponding to the change in magnetic field in AC coil.

That's wrong. All magnetic field lines are closed loops. They do not "start on the north pole and end on the south pole". They form complete loops all the way through the bulk magnet. This is the physical meaning of divB=0.